Craig Hebert
United States
Goodlettsville
Tennessee
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Is there a consensus on whether the game is better without the reckless cards from Pegasus when using the full Exodus set of modules? I assume that including the Pegasus board is an auto-include? How about Cylon leaders? Better to keep them in or out?

We will be playing this a 2nd time soon and I'm trying to figure out what is thought to be the right mix as I hopefully finish the Cardboard Pegasus in time.

Thanks in advance
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pieter
Netherlands
Maastricht
flag msg tools
Good intentions are no substitute for a good education.
badge
I take my fun very seriously.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Pegasus does not mesh well with Exodus. Especially not Treachery and Cylon Leaders. Many reasons for that. Two examples: Some of the Cylon Leader agenda's are almost impossible to fulfill if Personal Goals are included. And the Broadcast Location card can be used by the humans as a way to circumvent the Cylon Fleet Board's buildup.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
SoCal
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
JacquesDeMolay wrote:
Is there a consensus on whether the game is better without the reckless cards from Pegasus when using the full Exodus set of modules? I assume that including the Pegasus board is an auto-include? How about Cylon leaders? Better to keep them in or out?

We will be playing this a 2nd time soon and I'm trying to figure out what is thought to be the right mix as I hopefully finish the Cardboard Pegasus in time.

Thanks in advance
As it turns out (contrary to what I thought for the longest time), the only things from the Pegasus exp that are truly optional are the NC phase, and CL. And even then with the CL, they're required in 7p, and if you don't use them in 4p or 6p, you need to use the no-symp variant or symp cylon instead.

Personally, I find that for better or for worse, Exo works with Peg.

I like how much variety all of the elements adds to BSG as a whole..... the new characters, the skill cards, destinations, and Peg has 9 new Qcards as opposed to Exo's only 3 new ones.

There are some nice combinations of elements and abilities with Peg + Exo, such as but not limited to..... Anders using his special after receiving 3+ Treach cards, Kat's special + the new 0 and 6-strength skill cards, Ellen's special to give skill cards to others, how Cain can't just use her OPG willy-nilly... she has to time it with the CFB, there are much more Qcards so Tory gets indirect benefit from the pres. playing them, Consequence mechanic tied into Reckless SKill Check Treach cards.

Treachery just makes things overall a bit more exciting. By design, they're immune to Red Tape, and a revealed cylon has more colors to draw from than the newly established classis Piloting and Engineering.

People can circumvent CFB mechanic with Broadcast location, but that's rare. IMO, CL are just as "frakked" with PGs in play as without. We've had a couple of games where PGs helped a CL to win (although yeah, it should've had come to that).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nate Owens
United States
Saginaw
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
We've only played Exodus once without Pegasus. Our games always have at least the second board and treachery. Exodus doesn't have anything that actually works against those. The very best game I've ever played with expansions with with the Pegasus, Treachery, the Cylon Fleet, and the alternate Loyalties. The end games are probably the jankiest part of the two expansions, even though I like them both overall. If you don't mix those in, there's very little conflict between the two.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roberta Yang
msg tools
Both games have their problems, but the two games' problems don't seem to exacerbate each other. Cylon Leader agendas are bad with Exodus, but they're also bad with just Pegasus. New Caprica and Ionian Nebula are both terrible endgames, but adding elements of the other game doesn't make either endgame significantly worse.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joseph Cochran
United States
Costa Mesa
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmb
Personally, I like Exodus better with Pegasus, particularly with the Cylon Fleet option. The CFB can MASH you and having the Pegasus around gives just a little more flexibility particularly when you have Cylon pilots (something that hurts a LOT more with the CFB). It's a damage sponge, but even so with the CFB I've seen both ships cracked.

That said, I also actually LIKE Reckless/Treachery as a mechanism so I enjoy playing with Pegasus anyway. But to flip the question, I think that Pegasus is better with Exodus because Pegasus contains a few too many Human boosts without enough Cylon boosts, and Exodus feels like it resets that balance: the game should be hard for the humans, otherwise it wouldn't feel tense IMO.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joseph Cochran
United States
Costa Mesa
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmb
salty53 wrote:
Both games have their problems, but the two games' problems don't seem to exacerbate each other. Cylon Leader agendas are bad with Exodus, but they're also bad with just Pegasus. New Caprica and Ionian Nebula are both terrible endgames, but adding elements of the other game doesn't make either endgame significantly worse.


Ionian Nebula isn't bad. I definitely worried about it, but it turns out we quite enjoy it. We've had two boxings in our many plays (one of whom was me after being turned Cylon by a double-Cylon and then drawing double splotches during Crossroads so yeah, worst-case random ganking), but largely it's just something different. We don't always play with it, but it's mostly a decision of flavor, not a "which is better" decision.

New Cap, yeah, that one isn't as good. We even tried it with Exodus a couple of times: talk about weird interaction... It's not that it's bad per se, it's just that it's a different game and if we'd signed on for the different game we would have played a different game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Cameron McKenzie
United States
Atlanta
Georgia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Use the Pegasus "core" (everything but cylon leaders and new caprica) along with Cylon Fleet module and a few changes as seen in this PBF game:

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/673173/bsg-198-relentless-5p...

It's more challenging for humans, but the challenge is welcome and I think captures the theme better.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Craig Hebert
United States
Goodlettsville
Tennessee
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I like the Pegasus board and characters, and hated very much the Caprica board. I was "meh" on reckless checks and Cylon leaders though I didn't really like so much the contrived nature of their agendas at all.

We played exodus without the Ionian Nebula, but I wanted to give that a run thinking it might be fun to interact with NPCs. That said, I have read here of quite a bit of disagreement regarding how this played out. I liked the CFB and have to say as one did here that the Pegasus as a damage sponge seems needed.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roberta Yang
msg tools
jsciv wrote:
Ionian Nebula isn't bad. I definitely worried about it, but it turns out we quite enjoy it. We've had two boxings in our many plays (one of whom was me after being turned Cylon by a double-Cylon and then drawing double splotches during Crossroads so yeah, worst-case random ganking), but largely it's just something different. We don't always play with it, but it's mostly a decision of flavor, not a "which is better" decision.

Our first game with Exodus, the Admiral was executed, respawned with three bad trauma, and was ejected from the game. Observe that there was no possible defense against this except to not be Admiral - and someone has to be the Admiral.

Our second game with Exodus, the Admiral was executed and respawned as a Cylon. Having only one Cylon the entire game meant the humans had a boring easy time of the whole thing. The respawned former Admiral had no Skill Cards and it was the end of his turn, and he wasn't a useful characters to throw XO's at (especially since he was automatically suspected as we didn't think another Cylon was around). So he just sat there watching the humans win before he even got a turn. The other Cylon, much earlier in the game, had been a Pilot. He was shot down right before his turn and executed by Sickbay, losing his turn and being booted off to the Resurrection Ship. That Cylon was boxed due to The Opera House.

Game three, The Opera House boxed a Cylon. Game four, we boxed two Cylons, who entered the Crossroads Phase with 0 and 1 Benevolent trauma each. Game 5, we still boxed a Cylon, but the human who played The Opera House to do so was executed in the process and respawned as the other Cylon, and proceeded to sit there and lose. At that point, we went back to playing base game because the Ionian Nebula seemed pretty frakking stupid.

Ionian Nebula didn't add any new interesting decisions to the game. You can still usually be XO'd out of Sickbay, so Sickbay is still a non-threat. The allies are easily avoidable if you don't want to interact with them. Players have so little trauma by default that you can only be ejected from the game when the game decides to randomly decides to screw someone over. Meanwhile, you get a frakload of problems that make the game unbalanced and absolutely ruin the game for one victim who is essentially told "You're not allowed to play, sorry, also you lose" despite making no mistakes.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joseph Cochran
United States
Costa Mesa
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmb
salty53 wrote:
Game 5, we still boxed a Cylon, but the human who played The Opera House to do so was executed in the process and respawned as the other Cylon, and proceeded to sit there and lose. At that point, we went back to playing base game because the Ionian Nebula seemed pretty frakking stupid.


Well, you're definitely worse-case than we are. As I said, we've played many games that included the Nebula (looking back over my journal it appears to be in the neighborhood of 20) and only had two boxings. There has to be some threat (which is why I never took to using the ideas I had for executions rather than full boxing) and I suppose that random chance says there are going to be game groups where it happens more than in others, and for some people the process won't be game breaking (even when I was gank-boxed I still enjoyed the game and found the experience overall satisfying).

Quite often playing with the CFB we find that we don't even make it as far as Crossroads anyway: the Cylons win before then. It's really only the Cylons that have a good chance of getting boxed (if you look at the Crossroads cards they're far more brutal to the Cylons), and since they have a bit of the upper hand anyway it just means that the best way to avoid boxing is to smash the puny humans flat...

That said,

salty53 wrote:
Ionian Nebula didn't add any new interesting decisions to the game. You can still usually be XO'd out of Sickbay, so Sickbay is still a non-threat. The allies are easily avoidable if you don't want to interact with them. Players have so little trauma by default that you can only be ejected from the game when the game decides to randomly decides to screw someone over. Meanwhile, you get a frakload of problems that make the game unbalanced and absolutely ruin the game for one victim who is essentially told "You're not allowed to play, sorry, also you lose" despite making no mistakes.


I disagree that it doesn't add interesting decisions. I think that it does add them, as a matter of fact, which is part of why I like using the Nebula sometimes. It's about whether or not you want that extra tension. Sure, you might get ganked, but the more you manage it (particularly if you're human) the lower the odds of it and card desks for Crisis, Destination and Loyalty, as well as die rolls all say odds have a place in this game.

I don't think the Nebula is for all occasions or people, but I do think it has a place in the game. Honestly, even New Cap has a place very rarely...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
SoCal
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
salty53 wrote:
jsciv wrote:
Ionian Nebula isn't bad. I definitely worried about it, but it turns out we quite enjoy it. We've had two boxings in our many plays (one of whom was me after being turned Cylon by a double-Cylon and then drawing double splotches during Crossroads so yeah, worst-case random ganking), but largely it's just something different. We don't always play with it, but it's mostly a decision of flavor, not a "which is better" decision.

Our first game with Exodus, the Admiral was executed, respawned with three bad trauma, and was ejected from the game. Observe that there was no possible defense against this except to not be Admiral - and someone has to be the Admiral.

Can't have rewards without risks. Being admiral lets you control nukes, choices on certain crisis cards, and pick the Destination cards. However, you're expected to be on the chopping block to discard cards, get sent to Sickbay, to get brigged, and now, IN adds an admiral who's almost literally on the chopping block. When you're playing with IN, and admiral should expect this. OTOH, this can cost cylons dearly though. Also, it should be rare you draw 3 mb, but you can help mitigate this by choosing a result on the X-roads card that'll let you dump trauma. If you're playing as the admiral, it's something to keep an eye aout for anyways.


salty53 wrote:
Our second game with Exodus, the Admiral was executed and respawned as a Cylon. Having only one Cylon the entire game meant the humans had a boring easy time of the whole thing. The respawned former Admiral had no Skill Cards and it was the end of his turn, and he wasn't a useful characters to throw XO's at (especially since he was automatically suspected as we didn't think another Cylon was around). So he just sat there watching the humans win before he even got a turn. The other Cylon, much earlier in the game, had been a Pilot. He was shot down right before his turn and executed by Sickbay, losing his turn and being booted off to the Resurrection Ship. That Cylon was boxed due to The Opera House.
That does suck for the lone, near end cylon, but these types of things have been occruing since the base game. Exodus just adds new "woes". We've had one game where a player revealed early, did everything right, and almost won the game. What happened? the 2nd cylon card never got dealt out. Thinking back, it sucks either way. He got cheated out of a win, but OTOH, if the 2nd cylon card got dealt out, humans would've been long dead. One side or the other was doomed to fail, so in the end, it equates to a "shallow" or "Hallow" victory.

salty53 wrote:
Game three, The Opera House boxed a Cylon. Game four, we boxed two Cylons, who entered the Crossroads Phase with 0 and 1 Benevolent trauma each. Game 5, we still boxed a Cylon, but the human who played The Opera House to do so was executed in the process and respawned as the other Cylon, and proceeded to sit there and lose. At that point, we went back to playing base game because the Ionian Nebula seemed pretty frakking stupid.
Personally, I just like to inject some new stuff into BSG is all. The illusion of fun and control aren't really that far off when you get slammed with CAC due to bad crisis shuffle. I've had games where I revealed as a cylon, someone else did too, and were bored out of our skulls b/c the humans were taking a while deciding moves and we were out of it that we may as well been eliminated from the game.

salty53 wrote:
Ionian Nebula didn't add any new interesting decisions to the game. You can still usually be XO'd out of Sickbay, so Sickbay is still a non-threat.
I get this and the statements following this are braod generalizations, but you just mentioned above that a pilot who got shot down and sent to Sickbay got executed via mb. I had to point this out as they do conflict with each other. And all of the skill card decks are more diluted that XOs do become more difficult, so it's less gauranteed nowaways. Even moreso when you add Pegasus cards.



salty53 wrote:
The allies are easily avoidable if you don't want to interact with them.
Ahh, but sometimes you must... if Saul's on Command and you really need to use it, then it's trouble if he's "grumpy" and sends you to the Brig. President's Office can be dangerous in the long run if Roslin doles out 2 trauma tokens. Armory can be deadly if you need to shoot at cents, but she could end up damaging Galactica, and worse yet, Armory itself. W'eve had to deal with a few such annoyances in one of my PBF games. Sure, you can XO someone to go there and avoid those spots, but unless you're just hitting those locations once, you'll need to move. And it's more inefficient to move and take action than 2 actions from XOs
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.