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Breakthrough: Cambrai» Forums » Variants

Subject: Dice rss

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Marshall Neal
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In my play, I did find a lot of outcome variation was possible with 2d6. I wonder what 1d10 would do, if it would lessen the deviation just enough. More of a tweak than anything.

Why 2d6 instead of 1d6 or so on? Just curious.

 
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Mike Brewer
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Surely the difference between a d10 and a d10 would show greater chance of extreme results (and greater variability overall) than the difference between 2d6 and another 2d6?

People often propose replacing the 2d6 with a d6. This would eliminate the extreme DR diffs.

Mike
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Jens Kreutzer
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2d6 has a bell curve, 1d6 is linear. This means that with 2d6, results around 7 will be more likely to appear than extreme results.
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Paul Borchers
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To describe the "bell curve" for 2d6 in detail, there's a one in six chance of rolling a 7, 5 out of 36 of rolling a 6 or an 8, one out of nine of rolling a 5 or a 9, and so on, until you reach one out of 36 for either a 2 or 12.

1d10 or 1d6 give an equal chance for each result. You could also use 2d6 and read one die as a "one" and the other as a "ten" if you wanted to get 36 different results in "base 6" terms (11,12,13,14,15,16,21,22, etc.).

Of course, it's also a matter of what each roll means in a CRT, and that depends on how the designer wants the whole thing to play together.
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Marshall Neal
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I'd like the designers or playtesters to weigh in too. This is good feedback. A 1d10 would be 1 value less than a 2d6, I would think.

1-10 = 10
2d6 = 11

The next choice would be 1d8.

Anyway, I feel like 2d6 is a bit much. It's just rough when you put your last reserves into an all-out attack and you wiff the roll. HOWEVER, that could be 100% the intent. It also works both ways, so it's not like the game is broken with 2d6.

Anyway, I wonder how much impact a minor tweak would have. Also, what would be the overall impact of 1d6? Would that be too much correction? At 1d6 a player could guarantee the outcome beyond doubt of at least one or two attacks on any given day of combat. Perhaps that's what the hurricane barrages are for? At least that's how I viewed the hurricanes, as partial trumps.

(Awesome game!) I'm going to see if I can get it down and run it at the next con in LA in February.
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Sean Todd
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Probability that the difference between a roll of 2d6 and a second roll of 2d6 will be nine or greater: 0.8%.

Probability that the difference between a roll of 1d10 and a second roll of 1d10 will be nine: 2.0%.

Probability that the 2d6 difference will be seven or greater: 5.4%.

Probability that the 1d10 difference will be seven or greater: 12%.

Having each player roll a single d10 is more likely to produce extreme results than each player rolling 2d6.

Last one:

Probability that the 2d6 difference will be ten: 0.15%.

Probability that the 1d10 difference will be ten: 0%.

The 2d6 difference can produce a ten and the d10 difference can't, but that is expected to happen fewer than 20 times in 1,000 rolls.

Probability that you will remember the time you rolled a 12 and your opponent rolled a 2 (or vice versa) for many years: ~100%.
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Marshall Neal
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Awesome analysis.

And yes, to be fair, I remember a lot of 7's. I also remember the time I threw a 2 when I needed only a 5-6 followed by my opponent's 10-11. LOL

 
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Michael Rinella
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Sorry to say this, but the reason I use a 2d6 combat system is because most or all of the Avalon Hill area-impulse games did, and all the games I've designed using the same general blueprint - Monty's Gamble, Not War But Murder, Counter Attack! Arras, and Birth of a Legend - have. It's convention, that's all.

Michael Rinella
Designer: Breakthrough Cambrai
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Mike Brewer
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Quote:
To describe the "bell curve" for 2d6 in detail, there's a one in six chance of rolling a 7, 5 out of 36 of rolling a 6 or an 8, one out of nine of rolling a 5 or a 9, and so on, until you reach one out of 36 for either a 2 or 12.


To be clear, for most rolls in this game, it's the difference between a pair of 2d6s that matters. This is also known as a "DR diff", where DR means roll 2d6 and sum the total, and dr means roll 1d6.

Mike
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