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Subject: Cultural victory rss

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Mike Romeo
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I'm playing a game tonight and was planning to try for a cultural victory (after 3 games nobody ever tried that so though it could be fun)

But after a few read, people seems to think cultural victory is the hardest? I though the cultural cards could help you from being attacked (at least to often)? What do you think? If I wanna win should I try this? Is it possible at all? Should city worth 2 cultural tokens instead of one?


Also, when do you go with another victory path than cultural, where are you on the cultural track at the end of the game? 0 to maximise things toward your victory path? First level? Middle of the track? And what about other paths like coins? Do you try to get a few coins? a lot? If you don't go coins I mean...


Also, it seems, as we are ameritrash players as much as euro, that people really tend to go towards the military path. When do you play agaisnt those type of players, do you build a substiantial force(build up a great force that makes reaching your victory longer because of the ressource and time you spend getting that army) or do you go all-in for your victory building a really small army?

The military path seems quite strong, especially with the castle and academies. Is it the easiest way? Best way to counter?

Thanks a lot.
 
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Tim Silver
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In the small number of games I've played, culture seems an all or nothing path because of the amount of culture needed to move up the track near the end along with the trade required (less trade for researching techs). With the right cards though, it can be possible to hold off and even completely stifle a military player without needing to build a large force of your own.

When going Tech or Coins, they seem to go kind of hand in hand as you need techs to get some coin and having coins can save you trade for getting those higher level techs without having to produce 20 or 26 trade with your cities.
 
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Daniel Hammond
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I have tried it a couple of times, but never really got that close. I think Rome is best followed by China, to try for it. If you have a big production city Rome can crank out a wonder per turn (I have even built 2). The hard part is you get the bonus cards, but some don't help you. If you are unlucky few help you. If you are lucky you can do amazing things. Last game I played my neighbor and I both went culture. I got stuck with cards that were unhelpful (sabotage x2 without being close to anyone). He defected one of my armies and killed the other destroying 3 of my units and taking spoils. Huge shift in power that set me more than a turn back. Good luck, literally :).
 
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Paulo Santoro
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It helps if you play with the official "Advanced Tie-breaker variant". Most people agree that it's the best way to play, and, if you reach a cultural victory in the same turn when another player reaches economic or tech victory, the odds in the tie-breaker will be with the culture guy.

And you will need to "control" the game with all of your cards, avoiding that your opponents go well. Don't bother with building flags, but be sure to have units in hands to defense your cities.
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Dan Williams
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I don't think the cultural path is viable unless there are 4 players. Most all of my games have been 2 player and has caused me to give up on it, because I don't see a way around a military only strategy.
 
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Mike Romeo
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What about where you stand on the cultural/coin track when you win using another path to victory?
 
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I've won a few culture victories - mostly with the Romans, but also with the Chinese.

The all-or-nothing thing is a myth. In fact, I suspect this is the groupthink mentality responsible for making culture victories so few.

Instead, rethink how to build a culture engine while still supporting the other necessities - especially your military might. Spend the early game setting all this up, AND protecting yourself militarily, and THEN convert to culture. You should be able to generate tens and twentys worth of culture per turn and absolutely rocket up that track.

With the Romans, this is easy to do - build up military early, and go stomping across the board quickly to gain free culture ticks for conquering huts and villages. If you are doing this, there is no reason to even start gathering culture, much less spending it, until you've reached the second tier of the culture track. In the meantime, build you culture generating infrastructure - make sure you have a city or scout parked on or near some incense, and that you have researched the culture generating techs that require the incence. At the same time, do not neglect military build up. At some point in the mid-game you are going to convert you economy over from a military economy to a culture economy, but until that point, buying extra figures and units, and building buildings such as barracks are essential in the late game from intimidating other players away from attacking you while you start to focus on culture. And when you do convert over to culture generation, there is usually no reason to have more than one city devote itself to the arts - remember, you can park scouts in the outskirts of your other cities and assign them to your culture generating city at the start of turn. That way you can be spending a city action generating culture that way, you can spend a city action gathering incense (if you didn't already get it stomping around the map attacking huts and villages), and you can spend your third city action continuing to support your military. Lastly, don't forget that this is a NEGOTIATION game. It's NOT a goddamned race, and you need to bribe, threaten, and cajole your way out of situations where it might otherwise be a disadvantage to be the culture player. That means using those culture cards accordingly - carrot and stick - give your cross-table friends gifts for their assistance, and make the lives of your enemies and drought-filled, lost-army hell.

Finally, pound the hell out of the economic player. Seriously. I've heard not to let the economic player get past seven coin - I would say don't let them get past FIVE. Attack everything they've got, harrass their scouts, blockade their buildings, etc etc. Slow their game down so you have the time to win.
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Daniel Hammond
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MScrivner wrote:


Finally, pound the hell out of the economic player. Seriously. I've heard not to let the economic player get past seven coin - I would say don't let them get past FIVE. Attack everything they've got, harrass their scouts, blockade their buildings, etc etc. Slow their game down so you have the time to win.


Hear the one about the culture player militarily harassing the economic player? The military player wins.

In the time it takes to do everything else especially squabble, a military player or two will make a push. It might be at the culture player or the economic player but definitely if they are fighting each other you should be able to win (with sound strategy). Too bad this game wasn't out when I was living in AZ it would have been fun to play with you Pretty Skull. One of us for sure would have learned something, and I hope it would be you teaching me.
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dlhammond wrote:
MScrivner wrote:


Finally, pound the hell out of the economic player. Seriously. I've heard not to let the economic player get past seven coin - I would say don't let them get past FIVE. Attack everything they've got, harrass their scouts, blockade their buildings, etc etc. Slow their game down so you have the time to win.


Hear the one about the culture player militarily harassing the economic player? The military player wins.

In the time it takes to do everything else especially squabble, a military player or two will make a push. It might be at the culture player or the economic player but definitely if they are fighting each other you should be able to win (with sound strategy). Too bad this game wasn't out when I was living in AZ it would have been fun to play with you Pretty Skull. One of us for sure would have learned something, and I hope it would be you teaching me.


Well, it's not perfect - it's the most fragile of all the victory paths, and it especially relies on manipulating the other players, which isn't always easily done depending on the metagame. But it's doable. Which makes achieving it fun. Maybe we can meet across the table at a con one of these days!
 
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Sean D.
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I found Culture victories on the easy side in Civ 4... hmm. In Civ 5, I have found Culture victories to be the hardest to achieve.

Regardless, no one in our gaming group has won via Culture in the Civ Board game yet. I appreciate the more experienced players sharing their tips.
 
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This is a great post!

MScrivner wrote:
I've won a few culture victories - mostly with the Romans, but also with the Chinese.

The all-or-nothing thing is a myth. In fact, I suspect this is the groupthink mentality responsible for making culture victories so few.

Instead, rethink how to build a culture engine while still supporting the other necessities - especially your military might. Spend the early game setting all this up, AND protecting yourself militarily, and THEN convert to culture. You should be able to generate tens and twentys worth of culture per turn and absolutely rocket up that track.

With the Romans, this is easy to do - build up military early, and go stomping across the board quickly to gain free culture ticks for conquering huts and villages. If you are doing this, there is no reason to even start gathering culture, much less spending it, until you've reached the second tier of the culture track. In the meantime, build you culture generating infrastructure - make sure you have a city or scout parked on or near some incense, and that you have researched the culture generating techs that require the incence. At the same time, do not neglect military build up. At some point in the mid-game you are going to convert you economy over from a military economy to a culture economy, but until that point, buying extra figures and units, and building buildings such as barracks are essential in the late game from intimidating other players away from attacking you while you start to focus on culture. And when you do convert over to culture generation, there is usually no reason to have more than one city devote itself to the arts - remember, you can park scouts in the outskirts of your other cities and assign them to your culture generating city at the start of turn. That way you can be spending a city action generating culture that way, you can spend a city action gathering incense (if you didn't already get it stomping around the map attacking huts and villages), and you can spend your third city action continuing to support your military. Lastly, don't forget that this is a NEGOTIATION game. It's NOT a goddamned race, and you need to bribe, threaten, and cajole your way out of situations where it might otherwise be a disadvantage to be the culture player. That means using those culture cards accordingly - carrot and stick - give your cross-table friends gifts for their assistance, and make the lives of your enemies and drought-filled, lost-army hell.

Finally, pound the hell out of the economic player. Seriously. I've heard not to let the economic player get past seven coin - I would say don't let them get past FIVE. Attack everything they've got, harrass their scouts, blockade their buildings, etc etc. Slow their game down so you have the time to win.
 
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Daniel Hammond
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Quote:
With the Romans, this is easy to do - build up military early, and go stomping across the board quickly to gain free culture ticks for conquering huts and villages.


Not sure if this was misstated, but it could explain it. Rome only gains a culture level for defeating villages not for taking huts.
 
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dlhammond wrote:
Quote:
With the Romans, this is easy to do - build up military early, and go stomping across the board quickly to gain free culture ticks for conquering huts and villages.


Not sure if this was misstated, but it could explain it. Rome only gains a culture level for defeating villages not for taking huts.


Sorry - that's correct - it's for winning combats. I knew that, I don't know why I mixed it up. In my local metagame, however, there is often an early game scramble to snatch up huts. This has lead me, in some cases to play bully as Rome. It can be easy to defeat a little weenie army at the beginning of the game when everyone is buying building instead of units, and it's a great way to get ticks.
 
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MScrivner wrote:
Sorry - that's correct - it's for winning combats. I knew that, I don't know why I mixed it up. In my local metagame, however, there is often an early game scramble to snatch up huts. This has lead me, in some cases to play bully as Rome. It can be easy to defeat a little weenie army at the beginning of the game when everyone is buying building instead of units, and it's a great way to get ticks.


Just to make sure -- it's not for winning combats; it's for winning combats against barbarian villages and enemy cities. You don't get culture ticks for defeating enemy armies.
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Peristarkawan wrote:
MScrivner wrote:
Sorry - that's correct - it's for winning combats. I knew that, I don't know why I mixed it up. In my local metagame, however, there is often an early game scramble to snatch up huts. This has lead me, in some cases to play bully as Rome. It can be easy to defeat a little weenie army at the beginning of the game when everyone is buying building instead of units, and it's a great way to get ticks.


Just to make sure -- it's not for winning combats; it's for winning combats against barbarian villages and enemy cities. You don't get culture ticks for defeating enemy armies.


Sorry - yes, that's correct. I am suffering from a cold today and so I think my foggy-headedness and cough syrup buzz is making my language is lacking its clarity.
 
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MScrivner wrote:
I've won a few culture victories - mostly with the Romans, but also with the Chinese.

The all-or-nothing thing is a myth. In fact, I suspect this is the groupthink mentality responsible for making culture victories so few.

Instead, rethink how to build a culture engine while still supporting the other necessities - especially your military might. Spend the early game setting all this up, AND protecting yourself militarily, and THEN convert to culture. You should be able to generate tens and twentys worth of culture per turn and absolutely rocket up that track.

With the Romans, this is easy to do - build up military early, and go stomping across the board quickly to gain free culture ticks for conquering huts and villages. If you are doing this, there is no reason to even start gathering culture, much less spending it, until you've reached the second tier of the culture track. In the meantime, build you culture generating infrastructure - make sure you have a city or scout parked on or near some incense, and that you have researched the culture generating techs that require the incence. At the same time, do not neglect military build up. At some point in the mid-game you are going to convert you economy over from a military economy to a culture economy, but until that point, buying extra figures and units, and building buildings such as barracks are essential in the late game from intimidating other players away from attacking you while you start to focus on culture. And when you do convert over to culture generation, there is usually no reason to have more than one city devote itself to the arts - remember, you can park scouts in the outskirts of your other cities and assign them to your culture generating city at the start of turn. That way you can be spending a city action generating culture that way, you can spend a city action gathering incense (if you didn't already get it stomping around the map attacking huts and villages), and you can spend your third city action continuing to support your military. Lastly, don't forget that this is a NEGOTIATION game. It's NOT a goddamned race, and you need to bribe, threaten, and cajole your way out of situations where it might otherwise be a disadvantage to be the culture player. That means using those culture cards accordingly - carrot and stick - give your cross-table friends gifts for their assistance, and make the lives of your enemies and drought-filled, lost-army hell.

Finally, pound the hell out of the economic player. Seriously. I've heard not to let the economic player get past seven coin - I would say don't let them get past FIVE. Attack everything they've got, harrass their scouts, blockade their buildings, etc etc. Slow their game down so you have the time to win.


Top post, i can speak from experience, 2 days ago i was playing a 3 player game and my opponant who just seemed to be plodding along collecting tech upgraded one of his buildings. Well the next turn he devoted all three cities to the arts and collected something like 27 culture. So in one turn he went from being 2 on the culture track to about half way up the culture track. I was gobsmacked! He now had 4 culture cards (4 being his max allowance) and 2 great people! in 1 turn!
I new than i had to act quickly and did and sent everything I had at him and I won by defeating his Capital. But I was lucky! If he had followed this advice above and had prepared himself knowing people will move on him he would of won easy. In the end I took his capital and he didnt even have 1 army as he just didnt plan ahead prop.
Brilliant game and i love going for culture wins! there is something very satisfying about winning this way
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KingAnus3 wrote:

Also, it seems, as we are ameritrash players as much as euro, that people really tend to go towards the military path.


I'm offended by this statement. Just because you are raised in a trashcan trailer, doesn't mean you need to lump us all in it...

Anyhow, I don't remember anybody buying civilization games because of the combat.
 
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Charliechuckleberry wrote:
KingAnus3 wrote:

Also, it seems, as we are ameritrash players as much as euro, that people really tend to go towards the military path.


I'm offended by this statement. Just because you are raised in a trashcan trailer, doesn't mean you need to lump us all in it...


What offends me is that you see "Ameritrash" and leap to "trailer trash". The two are unrelated.
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Charliechuckleberry wrote:
KingAnus3 wrote:

Also, it seems, as we are ameritrash players as much as euro, that people really tend to go towards the military path.


I'm offended by this statement. Just because you are raised in a trashcan trailer, doesn't mean you need to lump us all in it...

Anyhow, I don't remember anybody buying civilization games because of the combat.


Euro games are typically elegant designs, minimal luck, balanced and often with limited or controlled player interaction where the mechanism of the game is more important to the theme. These designs are often used by European game designers.

Ameritrash games are more theme over design, often unbalanced, luck based (dice mechanic), often with direct conflict between players. American produced wargames, games based on simulating books (Lord of the Rings) and many old Avalon Hill games fit the profile.

These are pretty accepted terms for the gaming community. I play both.
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dlhammond wrote:

Euro games are typically elegant designs, minimal luck, balanced and often with limited or controlled player interaction where the mechanism of the game is more important to the theme. These designs are often used by European game designers.

Eurotrash games are terribly boring designs, some luck, slow predictable moves balanced only with house rules and often with limited or controlled player interaction where the mechanism of the game is more important to the theme. These designs are often used by European game designers(Who outnumber American designers 200 to 1 and still do a terrible job).

American games are more theme over design, balanced minimal luck to discourage a slow boring playstyle, often with some conflict between players(I don't know why we have to mention this).

Ameritrash games are more theme over design, often unbalanced, luck based (dice mechanic), often with direct conflict between players. American produced wargames, games based on simulating books (Lord of the Rings) and many old Avalon Hill games fit the profile.

These are pretty accepted terms for the gaming community. I play both.


^^ Fixed it!

Last I checked, nobody votes trash to the #1 spot of BGG
 
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Charliechuckleberry wrote:
dlhammond wrote:

Euro games are typically elegant designs, minimal luck, balanced and often with limited or controlled player interaction where the mechanism of the game is more important to the theme. These designs are often used by European game designers.

Eurotrash games are terribly boring designs, some luck, slow predictable moves balanced only with house rules and often with limited or controlled player interaction where the mechanism of the game is more important to the theme. These designs are often used by European game designers(Who outnumber American designers 200 to 1 and still do a terrible job).

American games are more theme over design, balanced minimal luck to discourage a slow boring playstyle, often with some conflict between players(I don't know why we have to mention this).

Ameritrash games are more theme over design, often unbalanced, luck based (dice mechanic), often with direct conflict between players. American produced wargames, games based on simulating books (Lord of the Rings) and many old Avalon Hill games fit the profile.

These are pretty accepted terms for the gaming community. I play both.


^^ Fixed it!

Last I checked, nobody votes trash to the #1 spot of BGG :p


So you are suggesting rather than using fairly accepted lingo, we should misuse a clearly defined adjective?

An American game either has to be a game designed in the US or at least the continents that share its name. American games can use Euro game designs. European games could be considered Ameritrash style games. Complain if you like, but to me American games define a point of origin rather than a style. The only time I have heard the word Eurotrash used it wasn't used to describe a game style.

Also while not upset, if you are "fixing" posts in the future I think it would be a courtesy not to manipulate the words within a quote box with the author's name.
 
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I think any word used in a negative way is offensive. You are ignorant if you think that word doesn't offend anyone. You don't see people using the word "nigga" unless it's a joke. That's because in some cultures it's considered racist to use that word. However, in your sense of using offensive words, it is ok because it's well defined and used by many people in normal conversations.

I've heard ameritrash used more times for the negative meaning than for anything positive or neutral (it's used to bash american style games). I would argue this further, but it wont ever make a difference to you. So, I'll quote what one black man said to another when they were doing something ignorant. "Nigga. Please."
 
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Charliechuckleberry wrote:
I've heard ameritrash used more times for the negative meaning than for anything positive or neutral (it's used to bash american style games).


Your experience differs from mine, then.

ETA: Heck, just look at the fortressat.com website, where it's taken and used as a badge of honor.
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This is kinda funny, by Chris Rock
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXDFbFbNXOs&feature=related
 
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Incidentally, from the FortressAT glossary:

Quote:
Ameritrash: A style of board game enjoyed by friendly people, who appreciate the finer things in life - like guns and monsters.

...

Eurogame: A style of board game enjoyed by commies and spreadsheet-lovin IQdick-measurin' book-keepers (e.g., Twatcycle).


So I guess the word "Eurogame" is offensive, because it is used in a negative way.
 
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