Recommend
6 
 Thumb up
 Hide
11 Posts

No Retreat! The Russian Front» Forums » Rules

Subject: Upgrading Soviets rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Cezary Domalski
Poland
Szczecin
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm not sure when I can upgrade Soviet units - from the beginning of the game, paying card for each improvement or I must wait until turn 6?
13.5 Rule is little confusing here:
Other Soviet units can’t be upgraded before Turn 6, nor become two-step units before Turn 17
but:
Thus you can always pay a card to upgrade them; or use one of the free improvements starting on turn 6
Thanks in advance for clarification.


4 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carl Paradis
Canada
montreal
Québec
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
clownPL wrote:
I'm not sure when I can upgrade Soviet units - from the beginning of the game, paying card for each improvement or I must wait until turn 6?


Well... BOTH. Look at the "Evolution of the Soviet Army" chart on page 10 of the scenario booklet first.

Then let me explain:

Starting on Turn 3, you can upgrade Regional Units (only!) to their Fortified side by paying a card.

Starting on Turn 6 you get ONE free upgrade per turn you can use for ANY Soviet unit. BUT the only ones that can be upgraded with a card discard are still the Regional Units only.

Starting on Turn 11 you get TWO free upgrades per turn you can use for ANY Soviet unit. BUT the only ones that can be upgraded with a card discard are still the Regional Units only.

Starting on Turn 17 you lose your free upgrades, but all Soviets now have two steps and NOW you can upgrade ALL of them with card discard.

To resume:

Before Turn 17 (starting on Turn 3), the ONLY Soviet units that can be upgraded using a card discard are the 3 Soviet Regional units (Leningrad, Moscow and Sevastopol).
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Cezary Domalski
Poland
Szczecin
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
OK Carl thanks for explanation. It's all clear now. I was little confuse in my recent game, when I may flip Soviet units to its red side.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carl Paradis
Canada
montreal
Québec
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
clownPL wrote:
OK Carl thanks for explanation. It's all clear now. I was little confuse in my recent game, when I may flip Soviet units to its red side.


You are most welcome. I'll try to find a cleaner/cleverer way to explain this part in the future "living rules".

Thanks for your questions and input!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brad Hurst
United States
Gastonia
North Carolina
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Was on the verge of typing this question myself...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Adam Donahue
United States
New York
flag msg tools
My confusion stems from the difference between a one-to-two-step upgrade and an 'improved' (but one-step) upgrade. For example, does upgrading a regional infantry in Turn three to a fortified unit make that unit a two-step unit, or merely an upgraded one-step unit, where it can be downgraded back to a regional infantry by the player but not flipped to its downgraded side in combat?

On another note, just to clarify, there's no rule indicating that a regional infantry can only be upgraded to a fortified unit in its matching city (e.g., Leningrad can only fortify in Leningrad) or in a city to begin with, correct? Fortification can take place anywhere, although it makes best sense to fortify in a city to maintain control, right? (Sorry, this is my first war game and I'm sure some of these questions are obvious to experienced gamers.)



2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carl Paradis
Canada
montreal
Québec
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
adamdonahue wrote:
On another note, just to clarify, there's no rule indicating that a regional infantry can only be upgraded to a fortified unit in its matching city (e.g., Leningrad can only fortify in Leningrad) or in a city to begin with, correct? Fortification can take place anywhere, although it makes best sense to fortify in a city to maintain control, right? (Sorry, this is my first war game and I'm sure some of these questions are obvious to experienced gamers.)


Good question. Yes you can place them anywhere. In some scenarios set-uyps they are in fact not in their "Respective" Cities. Albeit I usually put them there. Ex: If Sevastopol is taken the Regional Unit that was probably there could be put to good use in, say, Stalingrad or the Oil Well in the caucasus.

BUT, do not forget that these lose their "Zones of Control" when fortified.

if you don't like this ruling, then by all means make your own house rule. It's YOUR game now.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Adam Donahue
United States
New York
flag msg tools
Well -- I think I'll stick with your suggestions until I actually know what I'm doing.

This is a fantastic game, Carl.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carl Paradis
Canada
montreal
Québec
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
adamdonahue wrote:
For example, does upgrading a regional infantry in Turn three to a fortified unit make that unit a two-step unit, or merely an upgraded one-step unit, where it can be downgraded back to a regional infantry by the player but not flipped to its downgraded side in combat?


Yes, It does make it into a two-step units, as explained in rules 7.1 (last bullet) and 7.5.

Look also at the "Evolution of the Soviet Army" Graphic in page 10 of the Scenario Booklet, or the example on how to capture forts in page 19 (it is also said that the Fortified units have two steps).
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carl Paradis
Canada
montreal
Québec
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
adamdonahue wrote:
Well -- I think I'll stick with your suggestions until I actually know what I'm doing.

This is a fantastic game, Carl.


Thanks! It's perhaps not the easiest wargame to start the "genre" with, but once you have mastered those few small details, it's an eminently playable game, IMHO.

If you have other question, please do not hesitate to ask!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim Cote
United States
Maine
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
licinius wrote:
I'll try to find a cleaner/cleverer way to explain this part in the future "living rules".

1. Do not intermix what you can and cannot do. Go from the general to the specific, building up the information in a logical way.

2. Put the information you need to now in the sections of the rules where it is actually applied.

3. Be more consistent with terminology. For example, in the current living rules (Oct 2011), I can make a good case that regular Soviet units may be flipped on turn 1, even including the chart on page 10 of the Scenario Book.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.