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Subject: Women and Children first.....Does this still apply in todays society? rss

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Lee

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Happy Friday Folks!

I was watching a documentary on the Titanic last night (which I still find fascinating) and we got to talking about how in disasters/emergencies the creed was women and children first.

Now I don't know about you all, but can you imagine being on a sinking ship, a fire, or somewhere dangerous and waiting until all of the women and children are saved first?? (Strangers, mind you.)

My question is this.....If you were on the Titanic today, would you be able to wait until women/children got in a life boat or did society change enough where it is every person for themselves?

Personally, I would like to think I am "old school" enough to make sure all of the women and kids were saved first. On the other hand, I do have a fear that I would do a "George Costanzia (Seinfeld) and push all of the women and kids out of the way to save myself!whistle

p.s. On even the other hand if there were a bunch of Amazon type women on board I guess they could save us men first!!!

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Ray Stantz
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Call me old fashioned but I would let the women and children go first, especially if my wife and kids were with me!
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JessA
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It would be no trouble for me to allow the women to go first.

But kidding aside, I do hope saving the children would be a priority.
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Lee

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Hmmm, wife and kids always go first. Strangers though???? It seems easy to answer of course I would "sink" to save women and kids....but I guess you would never know until the situation arises.
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Welcome to RSP, folks.
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Blorb Plorbst
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"Women and Children First" feels old fashioned because it is old fashioned. I'd say it's been in fashion for about 3 or 4 billion years.
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King of All Simians — Not a Mere Diplomat
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It's a maxim that makes perfect sense. Who wants to be trapped on a lifeboat with a bunch of mewling infants and hysterical wimmin? Load them all on their own boats first, then the men can have their boats to themselves for smoking cigars and telling traveling salesman jokes.
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Eagle-Eyed Superhawk
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Kids first, definitely.

But I've always suspected that the women-first mentality stems from the idea that women can't take care of themselves and need us big strong menfolk to do it. From there you're within spitting distance of making their decisions for them. Heck, by denying women the vote we're protecting their pretty little brains from the headaches and nastiness of politics and the real world. It's the noble thing to do, gosh darn it!

Granted, sometimes women and children will have to go first, in situations where size and strength are necessary to evacuate everyone (I dunno...getting a bunch of people out of a collapsed basement? My plausible-scenario-generator is broken.)

In your Titanic example I'd like to think I'm calm and level-headed enough to get most everyone off--male or female--before jumping in a boat. But who knows.
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D. Watson
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I always ask myself WWBZD... what would Billy Zane do? It usually involves stealing a small child and using it to lie my way on to a life boat. You would be suprised at how often stealing small children will get you to where you want to be laugh

But in all seriousness, I would like to think I would go down with the ship honorably while children and women live their lives out (most of them probably accomplishing little), but until you are faced with it, who knows.
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Boaty McBoatface
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Kids yes, women hell you wanted equality now live (or die) with it so no.
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JessA
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slatersteven wrote:
Kids yes, women hell you wanted equality now live (or die) with it so no.


Yeah, bi-otches, that's what you get for wanting to be treated equal!!!!
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howl hollow howl
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Children > mothers of children > fathers of children > [shark food]

So, until my daughter is no longer a child, I would try to save myself.
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howl hollow howl
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Holmes! wrote:
Load them all on their own boats first

Plus you can stare at their* tushes when they run away screaming, then get a good look down their shirts while they are climbing down into the lifeboats.

* = women, not children
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Zedsdead wrote:
Kids first, definitely.

But I've always suspected that the women-first mentality stems from the idea that women can't take care of themselves and need us big strong menfolk to do it.


But in the event of a panic, I would venture to guess that the kid is going to hang on to a parent. Which means one of the parents would need to go with the children. From the posts so far in this thread, it seems that many fathers would perhaps sacrifice themselves to ensure that the rest of their family made it.

"Back in the day," men didn't so much take care of the children -- that was the women's job. Today that rule is changing.

Regardless, a "save yourself!" attitude almost ensures that many children would be left behind.

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Are we all agreed that teenagers are last?
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howl hollow howl
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quozl wrote:
Are we all agreed that teenagers are last?

Unless they're teenage mothers.

(Umm.... reconsidering algorithm...)
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Yeah, "women first" no longer makes any sense. It's noble to suggest "children first", but how many favors are you doing them if you save them and not their parents? I can see a "families with children first", but now it's starting to feel a little weird.

I guess the concept is to save the ones who have the most potential years to live first, but that suggests that a young life is somehow more worthwhile than an experienced one. I'm not sure I buy it.

I can't honestly say how I would react in such a situation. I don't intend on taking any transatlantic cruises in the near future, so hopefully the issue won't come up!
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Joe Gola
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Interesting question. I would be interested to hear what people have actually done in this situation in recent years (as opposed to what people safe on land think they'd do or what they think other people ought to do).

Leaving children out of the equation, what are women's expectations on this? Do they expect to be treated equally, or do they expect the whole deference thing? If a man suggested "equal treatment," would that come off as misogynstic or hostile?

More generally, how do you gals feel about the whole "chivalry" concept? Is it an artifact of past sexism?* Should we do away with it? Is it just...you know...dorky? Or do you feel like pulling out the chair and opening that door and that type of thing is still good manners?

Dave wrote:
Holmes! wrote:
Load them all on their own boats first

Plus you can stare at their tushes

Yes, I think we can all agree that if the women get to go first we get to look at their butts. It's only fair. If I'm going to a watery grave at least let me have that.


*I know things aren't totally equal yet, but let's just pretend they are for the sake of the argument.
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amwiles wrote:
Zedsdead wrote:
Kids first, definitely.

But I've always suspected that the women-first mentality stems from the idea that women can't take care of themselves and need us big strong menfolk to do it.


But in the event of a panic, I would venture to guess that the kid is going to hang on to a parent. Which means one of the parents would need to go with the children. From the posts so far in this thread, it seems that many fathers would perhaps sacrifice themselves to ensure that the rest of their family made it.

"Back in the day," men didn't so much take care of the children -- that was the women's job. Today that rule is changing.

Regardless, a "save yourself!" attitude almost ensures that many children would be left behind.



Certainly. I was treating the women/children thing pretty abstractly: here's a pile of children, there's a bunch of women, yonder is a group of men, who gets priority.

It gets more complicated with families. It's like kids get priority bubbles; if Mom is in the bubble, she climbs the priority list. But I think I'd help Billy Zane before Kate Winslett if he had a child and she didn't.

And if we were talking about MY wife and child? All the rules go out the window. I'd gladly help others where I could but my family is my first priority.
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Gola wrote:
Interesting question. I would be interested to hear what people have actually done in this situation in recent years (as opposed to what people safe on land think they'd do or what they think other people ought to do).

Leaving children out of the equation, what are women's expectations on this? Do they expect to be treated equally, or do they expect the whole deference thing? If a man suggested "equal treatment," would that come off as misogynstic or hostile?

More generally, how do you gals feel about the whole "chivalry" concept? Is it an artifact of past sexism?* Should we do away with it? Is it just...you know...dorky? Or do you feel like pulling out the chair and opening that door and that type of thing is still good manners?

Dave wrote:
Holmes! wrote:
Load them all on their own boats first

Plus you can stare at their tushes

Yes, I think we can all agree that if the women get to go first we get to look at their butts. It's only fair. If I'm going to a watery grave at least let me have that.


*I know things aren't totally equal yet, but let's just pretend they are for the sake of the argument.


Creepy to the last. ;-)
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Mystery McMysteryface
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It's a very difficult question and in a disaster we/someone/everyone kind of gets to play god.

My daughter would be devastated if her father/my husband died on us (in her childhood).

On the other hand, there would be children who would not suffer as much if one or both of their parents died young.

It is an awful idea and one that I hope not to have to experience to find out the answer.
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Ludocrazy wrote:
Creepy to the last. ;-)

I will totally kick you off the lifeboat, lady.

Anyway, all the other guys are thinking it too, they're just too polite to say it.
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Aren't today's ships designed with enough life boats to handle the capacity on the ship? I guess I'd check that before I got on.
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Kilgore_Smores wrote:
Aren't today's ships designed with enough life boats to handle the capacity on the ship? I guess I'd check that before I got on.


Sir? What are you doing?

Just getting on the internet. It will only take a minute.

But...but...the ship is sinking! Don't you want to get in a lifeboat?

Sure I do! But I need to make sure that enough lifeboats are on this ship to hold everybody. Let's see. I'll google "lifeboats Titanic". No, that just tells me about how they were constructed so thy'd be unsinkable. Maybe "lifeboat capacity" will work. No, that just tells me how many people can fit in a lifeboat. There's got to be something here. Let's try this. Oh, yeah! That's it! It looks like there's plenty of room for everybody. I'll get on that lifeboat now! Hey, where'd everybody go? There's no more lifeboats! And that is one huge wave coming at me!
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quozl wrote:
Kilgore_Smores wrote:
Aren't today's ships designed with enough life boats to handle the capacity on the ship? I guess I'd check that before I got on.


Sir? What are you doing?

Just getting on the internet. It will only take a minute.

But...but...the ship is sinking! Don't you want to get in a lifeboat?

Sure I do! But I need to make sure that enough lifeboats are on this ship to hold everybody. Let's see. I'll google "lifeboats Titanic". No, that just tells me about how they were constructed so thy'd be unsinkable. Maybe "lifeboat capacity" will work. No, that just tells me how many people can fit in a lifeboat. There's got to be something here. Let's try this. Oh, yeah! That's it! It looks like there's plenty of room for everybody. I'll get on that lifeboat now! Hey, where'd everybody go? There's no more lifeboats! And that is one huge wave coming at me!


Hopefully my laptop could be used as a floatation device -I'm sure there's a ripcord on it somewhere.

I meant before I left dry land, I'd do a little research, which, I agree, would amount to squat when faced with chaos. Come to think of it, I'll sit this cruise out.

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