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Chaos in the Old World: The Horned Rat Expansion» Forums » Strategy

Subject: How do you play Nurgle? rss

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Andrew
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I've played the Horned Rat several times but only seen one Nurgle victory. My groups aren't too sure how to use him.

Certainly Morrsleib Nurgle seems to have the deck stacked against him:
* he needs 3 ticks to upgrade
* his cards are the most expensive
* Choking Stench (his single defensive card) is pricey and usually worse than Rain of Pus
* he struggles to mess with the other players
* his conditional effects just beg to be thwarted

The recent changes to the FAQ will help the God of Decay, but I'm still curious - how do you play Nurgle?

The upgrade poll rates Plaguebearers above what I'd pick - what am I missing? When is Cavalcade of Decay ever useful? Is dial victory possible in a game with Khorne?
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Daniel Hammond
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In full HAZMAT. Was there another way?
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Joel Schuster
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It seems like the expansion needs some subtler ways to play Nurgle successfully. Throwing everything in on points doesnt work anymore. And the dial is too long. Alot of his cards are too situational at best to be of general use.
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Joseph Cochran
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I've come the closest to winning with Nurgle in our group. I'm pretty sure that the new Ruination Point ruling is a game-changer for him: with Filth and Creeping Death and Infested Colony now all triggering Ruination (they previously did not), he's free to concentrate a little more attention on spreading out as regions get close to ruining: he still has to worry about the Rat, but if he's got a ton of corruption in a region about to ruin he can be a little more mobile now and still participate in the ruin.

I'm actually looking forward to my next play as Nurgle for that reason.

As far as how you play him: you still play much like you did before: getting ensconced in a region or two and loading it up, then jumping as they ruin. The bonus is that now you're able to be a little more flexible with Populous, meaning that you're not as trapped by Khorne as you might have been in the past. I've managed to get three upgrades with new Nurgle (basically being that "other power" that people leave DAC's for so that someone else doesn't get the double-tick), but not close to the dial win: I think for that you need to get lucky early in the game and then draw and play Nurgle's Quest, so it's best to just be a normal Nurgle and aim for the point win, just keeping an eye open for the dial.
 
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Mr Suplex
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I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that feels Nurgle has an uphill battle in the expansion. He is my main faction and I've found it just too difficult to really shine. He is definitely the most nerfed from base game to expansion in my opinion.

Is there a reason Nurgle needs 3 ticks for his first upgrade? I've always felt there was no reason for that and I think it hurts him quite a bit...
 
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Keith W
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I just be myself googoo
 
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Benny Meyers
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Mr Suplex wrote:
Is there a reason Nurgle needs 3 ticks for his first upgrade? I've always felt there was no reason for that and I think it hurts him quite a bit...


In the base game, because Provender of Ruin would just be unfair if he could get it out on turn 1, or consistently by turn 2. There's no good reason for it in the expansion. Maybe they should've revised his dial as well.
 
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Kester J
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blahmcblah wrote:
Mr Suplex wrote:
Is there a reason Nurgle needs 3 ticks for his first upgrade? I've always felt there was no reason for that and I think it hurts him quite a bit...


In the base game, because Provender of Ruin would just be unfair if he could get it out on turn 1, or consistently by turn 2. There's no good reason for it in the expansion. Maybe they should've revised his dial as well.


Yeah, agree with this. The problem is that Nurgle's new cards are focused on getting ticks, but it's still incredibly hard to get a dial victory with him so they don't have much inherent value (you really need to play Nurgle's Quest and activate it twice to be in with a chance, which isn't an easy task).

However, they do offer a solution in that I feel maybe you should just try to use your cards to hammer the dial turns 1 and 2 to make sure that you get one of your two best upgrades - Lepers or Infested Colony - by the end of turn 2. Then you can start playing the game "normally", as those are two of the best upgrades in the game and can help make up for your lacklustre chaos cards. (But upgraded lepers are excellent targets for Slaanesh's mind control Daemonettes, and if he decides to go after them, then you're basically screwed. So Infested Colony is the safe choice, unless you're sure Slaanesh has better things on his mind or won't be able to get that upgrade soon.)
 
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Andrew
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I saw an almost Nurgle dial victory today: one of the slightly more experienced players (4-5 games) took the Great Green One and ran rings around the newer players (2 games each) in a 3p (Nurgle, Tzeentch Slaanesh).

The Old World deck put the hurt on everyone, with Warrens Erupt preventing Slaanesh from ticking at all for a few turns; Nurgle double-ticked for the first 3 turns then narrowly single-ticked for 2 more turns (he had extremely poor die rolls, and if luck had swung his way would have double ticked on either turn).

Going into the 6th turn he had Nurgle's Quest and a Filth ready to go, with 3 upgrades (Lepers, Infested Colony and Great Unclean One). Unfortunately we boardgamers were kicked out of the room before the turn could be played out. angry

This is more as an interesting example; I strongly doubt Nurgle could get this close with more experienced opponents, though Khorne's absence made things a lot easier for him.
 
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Joel Schuster
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I can imagine Nurgle to win a 3p game by dial. But his options for doing that in a 5p game are severely limited.
 
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RJ
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Yeah Andrew, it definitely was a case of taking advantage of inexperienced players (one of my double ticks was because Tzeentch forgot I'd taken the Leper upgrade and thought I wouldn't be ticking with just a single cultist in two other territories.)

The lack of Khorne helps, but a Nurgle victory is still next to impossible without extreme luck, and opponents who have only one or two games under their belts.
 
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Joel Schuster
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Ok, I tried to optimize VP despite the fact that Nurgle has been taken away some nice options for gathering additional VP. Its not only Provender of Ruin, its also some Chaos Cards.

Every time I look at my cards, look at the board and look at my dial I find it impossible to tick that to the end. Maybe it should be worth another dedicated effort. I am looking at a strategy there.

Nurgle needs 10 ticks to win. Thats 5 turns with a double and it means you must not fail a single one of them. No tie in DACs whatsoever.

Its been ages since I have seen a game last beyond 5 turns. Its usually over in 5 sometimes even in 4 and once we had our winner after only 3 turns.

So, frankly, it seems impossible. The only way to gain a hold on the time limit is Nurgles Quest. Which you might or might not draw. Then you still need to get it down and trigger it. Which is the hard part. I've held the card once or twice. But there was absolutely no chance to trigger it. Even when I had played the card, 4 power you need to get it out early, which makes it even easier to cancel.

If you dont have the card or cannot apply it, you are stuck with needing 5 straight double ticks. Even getting the turn 1 double is a tough nut. I am talking of 4 or 5 player games only, I can see for 3 player games, alot of things change, but then I am not interested in 3 player games.

Currently, the only ideas that cross my mind are changes of rules. Like Nurgle still double ticks even when tied for the most DACs as long as he has more than 1. Or Nurgle skips the Remove X corruption dial rewards. Simply taking them but ticking over them. So he would get a first upgrade after 2 ticks. And he would only need 7 ticks instead of 10, which makes the whole thing somewhat realistic.

However I am quite reluctant to change the rules. I'd rather want to change my strategy to a successful one. Unfortunately there is none
I'm looking forward to having another dedicated effort on the dial, where I have the NurglesQuest in my initial hand so I can plan on using it throughout the game. I'll need a lucky double tick turn 1. Nice events, Khorne failed by the dice. I dont want to draw ANY ChockingStench instead of getting stuck with all 4 of them once again(seriously, this is one of the worst cards ever). And then I have to hope for that to continue through the game. Needless to say I should not make the slightest mistake. And then I need to keep my fingers crossed HARD, despite all that
 
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Joel Schuster
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I am sure that when I sit down on another game with that plan to push the dial, pushing VP will seem so much more realistic again. And then it wont work out either
 
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RJ
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Umbratus wrote:
I am sure that when I sit down on another game with that plan to push the dial, pushing VP will seem so much more realistic again. And then it wont work out either


You're on Nurgle's Quest! You must keep your eyes on that filthy prize. Do not be tempted by VP optimization. D-A-C! D-A-C!
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Andrew
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Played/witnessed a couple of 4p ex Khorne games over the weekend, Nurgle winning both by VP. Some of that came down to the decisions of other players, but it seemed Nurgle's flimsy followers, conditional effects and VP-only path weren't as much of a liability - indeed he was pretty strong.

With Khorne around, I wonder if Nurgle has to use a more metagame-heavy approach.
 
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Mr Suplex
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Kester wrote:
blahmcblah wrote:
Mr Suplex wrote:
Is there a reason Nurgle needs 3 ticks for his first upgrade? I've always felt there was no reason for that and I think it hurts him quite a bit...


In the base game, because Provender of Ruin would just be unfair if he could get it out on turn 1, or consistently by turn 2. There's no good reason for it in the expansion. Maybe they should've revised his dial as well.


Yeah, agree with this. The problem is that Nurgle's new cards are focused on getting ticks, but it's still incredibly hard to get a dial victory with him so they don't have much inherent value (you really need to play Nurgle's Quest and activate it twice to be in with a chance, which isn't an easy task).

However, they do offer a solution in that I feel maybe you should just try to use your cards to hammer the dial turns 1 and 2 to make sure that you get one of your two best upgrades - Lepers or Infested Colony - by the end of turn 2. Then you can start playing the game "normally", as those are two of the best upgrades in the game and can help make up for your lacklustre chaos cards. (But upgraded lepers are excellent targets for Slaanesh's mind control Daemonettes, and if he decides to go after them, then you're basically screwed. So Infested Colony is the safe choice, unless you're sure Slaanesh has better things on his mind or won't be able to get that upgrade soon.)


We finally tried a variation where Nurgle skips his second dial tick and it seemed to really help him, without too many fussy house rules and without making him too strong. Getting his upgrade as fast as everyone else and removing 1 tick for dial victory(its still a LONG dial) seem like fair changes and my group is all on board with it.
 
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Moisés Solé
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Now that it's been played a lot, I defer to the people with more experience, because I haven't managed to get many plays of this. Would the following house rule be good, or would it make Nurgle too strong? Nurgle Special: When you get a double advance because of having the most DACs, get a triple advance instead.
 
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Andrew
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referee wrote:
Nurgle Special: When you get a double advance because of having the most DACs, get a triple advance instead.


Because of the high interaction of the game, powerful conditional effects attract interference from other players. Nurgle suffers a lot from this, with his many conditional powers/cards, and I think your suggested house rule encounters the same issue.

Giving Nurgle +1 tick to start off with (or for his second tick) seem decent alternatives that don't get him beaten up on.
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Jeff Rudd
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I'm wondering how Nurgle would play in a Horned Rat game using his old chaos cards (just cards, not upgrades). All other players using expansion cards and upgrades. Would that help his situation?
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Farrokhnezad Farro
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Quote:

Jeff Rudd:
I'm wondering how Nurgle would play in a Horned Rat game using his old chaos cards (just cards, not upgrades). All other players using expansion cards and upgrades. Would that help his situation?


This is sort of what I had in mind. The new Chaos cards have a lot of "if you dominate this region..." stuff in them, the old card Plague Aura would be extremely helpful. All the ifs in the new Nurgle cards are just way too easy to foil by the other Ruinous Powers.
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