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Subject: Li'l Paulus (Card 23) & The Fuhrer's Interest (Card 20) question rss

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Chris Lawson
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These questions are based on the v2.0 English translation by Simon Lundström (Zimeon) found on the Arclight site.

Li'l Paulus (Card 23)
Quote:
During your Reinforcement phase this turn, you may discard 1 infantry. If you do, choose a tank from your deck and deploy it.

The Fuhrer's Interest (Card 20)
Quote:
You may look through your draw deck and choose a card from there to add to your hand.

1) Now, I assume that you may search any of your cards for the tank/card, so both your discard pile and your draw deck are available for inspection. Is this correct?

2) What I'm wondering is the exact procedure after you have found the card. Do you just shuffle your face down cards (your draw deck) or do you discard your draw deck into the discard pile (ready to be shuffled together when a card is next needed)? What if you just inspected your discard pile and found the appropriate card (without touching your face down draw deck), do you still have to discard/shuffle the draw deck into the discard pile?

Note: The Supply Operation (card 22) from El Alamein uses this procedure "Discard your deck. Then from your discard pile, select two deployable Infantry units and deploy them immediately". I was wondering if Li'l Paulus and The Fuhrer's Interest uses a similar mechanism.

3) With Li'l Paulus, where does the discarded Infantry come from? Hand or from deployed units. I assume it comes from your deployed units.

4) Li'l Paulus again. I assume the Tank isn't exhausted when it gets deployed (similar to cards being deployed by Panzer Division HQ).
 
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Simon Lundström
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xris wrote:
1) Now, I assume that you may search any of your cards for the tank/card, so both your discard pile and your draw deck are available for inspection. Is this correct?

Actually, as I've understood, this is not correct. The cards mention your deck, but not the discard pile. Considering the designer is pretty meticulous, I think he means deck only. But we can ask him.

xris wrote:
2) What I'm wondering is the exact procedure after you have found the card. Do you just shuffle your face down cards (your draw deck) or do you discard your draw deck into the discard pile (ready to be shuffled together when a card is next needed)? What if you just inspected your discard pile and found the appropriate card (without touching your face down draw deck), do you still have to discard/shuffle the draw deck into the discard pile?

I'd say shuffle the deck. But you're right that it's not clear.

xris wrote:
3) With Li'l Paulus, where does the discarded Infantry come from? Hand or from deployed units. I assume it comes from your deployed units.

My apologies again. It should state "you may discard 1 deployed Infantry.

xris wrote:
4) Li'l Paulus again. I assume the Tank isn't exhausted when it gets deployed (similar to cards being deployed by Panzer Division HQ).

Correct, it's not. If so, it would have been stated such (you may deploy it. If you do, it's deployed exhausted).
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Chris Lawson
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Zimeon wrote:
xris wrote:
1) Now, I assume that you may search any of your cards for the tank/card, so both your discard pile and your draw deck are available for inspection. Is this correct?

Actually, as I've understood, this is not correct. The cards mention your deck, but not the discard pile. Considering the designer is pretty meticulous, I think he means deck only. But we can ask him.

When I first read the card, that's what I thought, it applied specifically to the face down draw pile but then I got confused with the different terms being used on the different cards.

Li'l Paulus uses the term "from your deck" which seems to imply any of the cards from your deck (i.e. draw pile, discard pile, and maybe even from your hand).

Fuhrer's Interest uses the term "your draw deck" which does imply the draw pile specifically (that is, if there is any difference between a "draw deck" and a "draw pile" :) ).

Personally, I would go by the following.
Draw Pile/Deck = face down deck.
Discard Pile/Deck = face up deck.
Hand cards = Cards in hand.
Player's Deck (i,e. "your deck") = all your cards (draw pile + discard pile + hand cards).

But that's just my current terminology. Not sure if cards in hand should come into it, or for that matter, cards in play. For example, could Li'l Paulus Deploy a exhausted Tank already in play (as in, unexhaust a Tank during the Reinforcement Phase). That does seem to be pushing it a bit.
 
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Simon Lundström
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I'll look it over in any case. The Japanese term here is "deck", but maybe I can find some pointer in the rules as to whether they actually clearly define "deck". As I remember it, a "deck" in Barbarossa/El Alamein is a face down pile of cards, but it has happened that I've mixed the terminology with Tanto Cuore. I'll look it up.
 
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Chris Lawson
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Zimeon wrote:
I'll look it over in any case. The Japanese term here is "deck", but maybe I can find some pointer in the rules as to whether they actually clearly define "deck". As I remember it, a "deck" in Barbarossa/El Alamein is a face down pile of cards, but it has happened that I've mixed the terminology with Tanto Cuore. I'll look it up.

Many thanks. Don't know if it helps or hinders but don't forget the terminology used on Commando Troops (card 6).
Quote:
When you gain or play [this], choose one deck or draw pile. Look at the top card and return it to the top or bottom of that pile.

Here it seems to suggest that "deck" = face up pile and "draw pile" = face down pile, otherwise there would be no reason to include the two different terms in the card description.

On another note entirely, I must say that I was somewhat surprised over the explanation of the Commando Troops card. The ability to move the top City card to the bottom was one I never expected and can change the game quite a bit. Which is just as well since initially I thought there was an issue with the game when there were only a few City cards left (as in no-one would attack the second to last City since it just allows the next player to throw all his troops at it (discarding/returning them all to gain extra Attack points) and end the game).

xris wrote:
Personally, I would go by the following.
Draw Pile/Deck = face down deck.
Discard Pile/Deck = face up deck.
Hand cards = Cards in hand.
Player's Deck (i.e. "your deck") = all your cards (draw pile + discard pile + hand cards).

Thinking a little more about this, "Player's Deck = all your cards" doesn't seem right. "Player's cards = all your cards" is better. Still leaves the question as to what "deck" (term used on its own) or "player's deck" means
 
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Simon Lundström
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I think that what I need is to look over each and every time a "deck" is mentioned and be really careful next overhaul. Thanks for the pointer, I'll look it up as soon as I'm finished with the current projects.
 
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Simon Lundström
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I scoured the Japanese rulebook, and a "deck" is a player's draw deck. All the other piles are called "piles". However, I don't know how meticulous I was with this when doing the rules translation. When I did the Barbarossa rules, I wanted to re-write it in a way I found simpler, but I'd have done it differently today.
 
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