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Subject: Some questions regarding convoys rss

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Adam Thorp
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As far as I have understood the scenario setup rules, all initial convoy points must be placed in ports, that is the same as for other naval units. Is this correct?

When a major power is neutral, they may only take combined actions, thus limiting their naval moves and, to add insult to injury, furthermore forcing them to count every individual naval unit moved as a separate move. Can convoys be moved in stacks in a single move, even while neutral? Since two convoy points count as a single unit during production, can I move two convoy points together as a single naval move, provided they start the impulse together?

When you are no longer neutral, can you move a stack of convoy and tanker points in the same naval move?

The main reason I ask this is due to the initial trade agreement in place between the USA and Japan. If all convoy points have to start in ports and I can only move a very limited number of them during the initial turn (especially during foul weather which is more than likely during the first January/February turn of Days of Decision), it will be nigh-impossible to get an American convoy in place to avoid US entry penalties in place. During our game I simply said "I am going to cheat now" and moved all my convoy points during my first impulse. The Commonwealth and Japanese players then did the same. Have I misinterpreted something in the rules, or is this the only way to get around the dilemma?

A naval unit which stayed at sea during a previous turn cannot move other than during the "return to base" step, right? Furthermore, this means that I cannot simply redistribute my convoy points at sea if enemy naval units (yes, I am worried about submarines) damage one segment of a long convoy chain, which in turn would encourage me to have a "strategic reserve" of convoy points ready to head out to sea as replacements. Have I understood the matter correctly?
 
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Bill Koens
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I am no expert by any means, but I thought I remember reading that you may start the game with your convoys at sea.
 
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Henning Afzelius
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Adamukk wrote:
As far as I have understood the scenario setup rules, all initial convoy points must be placed in ports, that is the same as for other naval units. Is this correct?

NO the conv can start at sea, and conv as the only ships are allowed to stay at sea even if the power in no at war.

When a major power is neutral, they may only take combined actions, thus limiting their naval moves and, to add insult to injury, furthermore forcing them to count every individual naval unit moved as a separate move. Can convoys be moved in stacks in a single move, even while neutral? Since two convoy points count as a single unit during production, can I move two convoy points together as a single naval move, provided they start the impulse together?

Conv are counted as 2 conv=1ship. if a power is not at war only a few ships can be sailed on every impuls. (1,2 or 3 ships as then would be 2,4 or 6 conv)

When you are no longer neutral, can you move a stack of convoy and tanker points in the same naval move?

YES all ships starting in the same port can sail togeather only subs can not be part of a taskforce sailing as 1 naval move.

The main reason I ask this is due to the initial trade agreement in place between the USA and Japan. If all convoy points have to start in ports and I can only move a very limited number of them during the initial turn (especially during foul weather which is more than likely during the first January/February turn of Days of Decision), it will be nigh-impossible to get an American convoy in place to avoid US entry penalties in place. During our game I simply said "I am going to cheat now" and moved all my convoy points during my first impulse. The Commonwealth and Japanese players then did the same. Have I misinterpreted something in the rules, or is this the only way to get around the dilemma?

Well yes the conv can start at sea, you see the problem with moving the US conv.....

A naval unit which stayed at sea during a previous turn cannot move other than during the "return to base" step, right? Furthermore, this means that I cannot simply redistribute my convoy points at sea if enemy naval units (yes, I am worried about submarines) damage one segment of a long convoy chain, which in turn would encourage me to have a "strategic reserve" of convoy points ready to head out to sea as replacements. Have I understood the matter correctly?


Yes ships at sea can ONLY RTB (if they are reflipped they can sail again later in the turn). Yes moving a conv line is a nightmare and something the affected power will have to plan to avoid. Having a reserve to repair holes or move around sub units is the best way to sleep safely when the enemy has subs on the map :-) If conv are in short supply, HQ can stay near port are reflip the RTB conv in a naval impuls and then the new conv line can be build next impuls (if the turn dosent stop !!)
Hope this clear things up :-)
Cheers
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Kendall Griffiths
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San Diego
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Yes, all naval units set up inport. This is a single sentence under rule 24.1.6 "You must set up all on-map naval units in ports."

You are correct with the neutral status and combined actions, etc. Check rule 11.4.1 "If the moving units belong to a neutral major power, each unit you move (not each task force) counts as 1 naval move." Each CP/TP is a unit for movement purposes.

During set up at the end you can make naval moves out to sea. I agree with you, that I'm not sure how many CP/TP you can move out. We play the same way you did, because otherwise you can't get your convoy lines in place for the exisiting Trade Agreements.

Once a naval unit has stopped in a Sea Box (patrolling), it's only move option is to return to port. So during setup, you need to look at where any "extra CP/TP" get setup in ports so you have a reserve ready to replace losses.

EDIT: I'm an idiot and missed the last part and it just hit me. Under rule 24.1.6 it says: "After you finished setting up, you can make naval moves out to sea with your naval units. Treat this as a naval action you conducted last turn, so the units must finish their move, then drop to a lower sea-box section as if they had stayed at sea last turn (see 13.4). Neutral major powers can only make these moves with convoy (CoiF option 76: and tanker) points." So, at the end of setup, you are considered to be using a Naval Action (no limits to naval moves) and the Neutral status is waived for the set-up moves. You just can only move your CP/TP's.
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Greg Gray
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Because I misunderstood the rules before, I used to play that convoys could move from sea zone to sea zone, and would then have a convoy used marker placed on them to show they couldn't move again that turn. When someone pointed out to me that convoys are ships, and ships can only move to sea, or if at sea, can only move to port, I learned to play 'correctly' but I miss the old way I played.

I do recall a house rule or variant I saw that gave every country one free naval move regardless of impulse type, but only convoys could be moved with this move. I believe that may have been back in the rules for 4th Edition where you actually tracked resources moved via convoy.

I and the different guys I've played with generally shortcut the naval move during set up and just place convoys at sea. I don't think it should make any difference in a standard strategy, so long as Germany doesn't try to set up a convoy pipeline to Japan, or Russia to South America. The US and Japan have ports to use for their mandatory pipeline, and the CW has plenty of ports to use around the world so getting it's convoys out and it's pipelines set up should not be a problem. I will probably continue with that way of doing things, even though I see that it isn't technically correct.
 
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Kendall Griffiths
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San Diego
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I do the same thing with setting up the CP's already at sea. I think most people do. You just have to watch where you put any extra CP's that aren't at sea to make sure you have them where you want them for future turns.
 
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Simon Nicholls
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NajibGray wrote:
Because I misunderstood the rules before, I used to play that convoys could move from sea zone to sea zone, and would then have a convoy used marker placed on them to show they couldn't move again that turn. When someone pointed out to me that convoys are ships, and ships can only move to sea, or if at sea, can only move to port, I learned to play 'correctly' but I miss the old way I played.

I do recall a house rule or variant I saw that gave every country one free naval move regardless of impulse type, but only convoys could be moved with this move. I believe that may have been back in the rules for 4th Edition where you actually tracked resources moved via convoy.

I and the different guys I've played with generally shortcut the naval move during set up and just place convoys at sea. I don't think it should make any difference in a standard strategy, so long as Germany doesn't try to set up a convoy pipeline to Japan, or Russia to South America. The US and Japan have ports to use for their mandatory pipeline, and the CW has plenty of ports to use around the world so getting it's convoys out and it's pipelines set up should not be a problem. I will probably continue with that way of doing things, even though I see that it isn't technically correct.


We generally use the same short cut and lay out the convoy lines as part of each MP's set up. If someone sets up something clearly "dodgy" they would have to explain how they could do this with the ports they have available.
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