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Subject: Baron + Estates worked for me. rss

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I Q
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My wife beat me twice at Intrigue, but the third time I tried a Baron strategy. It was successful, even though it felt odd getting all those Estates. But instead of clogging my hand up, they helped because the Baron was so good with Estates.

So was that a fluke or is Baron + Estates a good strategy?
 
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Derek Thompson
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It depends on the mix. It can be strong. Whether it's stronger than others is the question. I really valued the strat on BSW (which has a very small mix), but then I started playing games w/ all cards on isotropic.... in that setting, it's pretty low-tier.
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Edward
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Even if you grab all the Estates and all the Duchies, you still can't end the game, and you'll lose to someone who has all the Provinces, since it will be difficult for you to get to $8.

Think about it this way: you're averaging $2 per card (one Baron, one Estate), which is the same as if you had bought pure Silver.

On the other hand, if there are also Great Halls in the mix, you might be able to empty out 3 piles (Estates, Great Halls, maybe Duchies?) and trigger game end before your opponent can get enough Provinces.
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Ron Olivier, Sr.
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theory wrote:
Even if you grab all the Estates and all the Duchies, you still can't end the game, and you'll lose to someone who has all the Provinces, since it will be difficult for you to get to $8.

Think about it this way: you're averaging $2 per card (one Baron, one Estate), which is the same as if you had bought pure Silver.

On the other hand, if there are also Great Halls in the mix, you might be able to empty out 3 piles (Estates, Great Halls, maybe Duchies?) and trigger game end before your opponent can get enough Provinces.


Great Halls...or Islands (from Seaside)...allowing you to get some of those Duchies out of your hand!
 
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It wasn't that hard for me to get Gold and then from that the more than occasional province, actually (a gold + a copper + an estate + a baron = a bought province). We split the provinces evenly and it came down to me having way more estates than my wife.

By the way, what does BSW mean? I take it Isotropic is that computer version of the game?
 
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Jeff Wolfe
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As with almost all Dominion questions, the answer to your question is, "It depends." Baron can be good in some setups and not so good in others.

Baron can be a good way to jump start your deck by getting you an early Gold (e.g. with Baron+Estate+Copper+Copper). But you don't want too many Baron-generated Estates in your deck, because against experienced players it will slow your deck down too much to be competitive. Considering that Baron+Estate is worth the same as Silver+Silver, there are many setups in which you're better off staying away from Baron. You can let the Barons go crazy late in the game when you don't care how clogged your deck is, but it only generates them one at a time, so that will only make a small difference.

As to your other questions:

BSW stands for BrettSpielWelt (German for BoardGameWorld), a web site with online implementations of many games, including a limited implementation of Dominion (it has all the cards from the base set and a limited selection of cards from each expansion).

Isotropic has an online implementation that includes all the cards that have been released to date. It's not strictly official, but the publisher and development team have a friendly relationship with isotropic. In fact, we use a test version of isotropic to test new cards before they're released.
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John Hodge
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jeffwolfe wrote:
Considering that Baron+Estate is worth the same as Silver+Silver, there are many setups in which you're better off staying away from Baron.

I agree with Jeff, but one more thing to keep in mind is the +Buy from Baron. It's a great card to support a Garden strategy because it could gain you an Estate, makes use of the extra Estates that you've been buying, and gives you a +Buy for an extra Estate or Copper.
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I Q
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I think what helped me is that I didn't try to trash my initial 3 estates. Suddenly, instead of being dead weight, they were potentially useful.
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Matt Shields
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particle_man wrote:
I think what helped me is that I didn't try to trash my initial 3 estates. Suddenly, instead of being dead weight, they were potentially useful.


It's also relevant if it's possible to trash them at all. In a game where you have Barons available but also easy ability to trash cards it is often still better to trash them.

On the other hand, if there are other support cards that help deal with all the VP cards you're drawing - like say scout - the Baron becomes much better.

You'd really need examine the whole set...
 
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Vince Lupo
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jeffwolfe wrote:
As with almost all Dominion questions, the answer to your question is, "It depends." Baron can be good in some setups and not so good in others.

Baron can be a good way to jump start your deck by getting you an early Gold (e.g. with Baron+Estate+Copper+Copper). But you don't want too many Baron-generated Estates in your deck, because against experienced players it will slow your deck down too much to be competitive. Considering that Baron+Estate is worth the same as Silver+Silver, there are many setups in which you're better off staying away from Baron. You can let the Barons go crazy late in the game when you don't care how clogged your deck is, but it only generates them one at a time, so that will only make a small difference.

As to your other questions:

BSW stands for BrettSpielWelt (German for BoardGameWorld), a web site with online implementations of many games, including a limited implementation of Dominion (it has all the cards from the base set and a limited selection of cards from each expansion).

Isotropic has an online implementation that includes all the cards that have been released to date. It's not strictly official, but the publisher and development team have a friendly relationship with isotropic. In fact, we use a test version of isotropic to test new cards before they're released.



It can also be strong when it's the only +buy card available. And sometimes a +buy is very important.
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HenningK
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I love Baron, maybe more than I should. Still, I usually only buy one at the very start of the game and never get more than one estate with it. So far, that has worked pretty well for me.

Saying that Baron + Estate generates just as much as Silver + Silver is technically correct, but early in the game, it is much more likely to get Baron + Estate than Silver + Silver. Also, it doesn't factor in the +Buy which can be extremely important.

If there is a strong thrasher like Chapel or Steward out, buying that instead of Baron and actually getting rid of your Estates is usually the better play. But if there are no thrashers or only very expensive ones (like Forge), there are few cards I'd buy over Baron with a 3/4 start.
 
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