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Subject: WaGaDE: Want a game that doesn't exist - Ottoman conquests rss

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Stephen Coney
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You know how you sometimes really, really want to play a game with a certain feel, but know that such a game doesn't exist? I get that all the time and right now I'm suffering.

I really want to play a game that simulates the conflicts of the 16th and 17th centuries from Europe to India - you have so many interesting things going on: Ottomans vs Europeans, Golden Horde, Persians and more; Venice's trading empire; Spanish Tercios; Mughuls in India, Portugese in the Indian ocean, Morocco's growing empire; wars across Africa with Sudanese, Ethiopians and others; French vs Habsburgs; Poles, Holy Roman Empire, early Russian expansion - it's all so interesting.

The game can't be too detailed and must be focused on conquest, but realistically - no one can conquer the world. I suppose it would need victory points. The battles can't be generic - that's where the flavor is! I can see it taking up to 5 hours, but more than that would be too much and less than 3 too simple.

Of course, I immediately set to work on a system, and already have some ideas. However, when I hear how much playtesting such a game would take, I shrink from the commitment.

My notebook is filled with 15 or so half-finished games.

Is anybody else in the same boat?
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I've been looking for a game on successful French Campaigns in Northern Europe 1940 but can't seem to find one either. whistle

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Stephen Coney
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You could always play World in Flames as the Axis and never attack France. Some guys told be about a game in which the Axis player thought that this would be a great idea - he attacked Russia instead.

By the end of the game the Axis was in such bad shape that the Chinese were sinking Japenese shipping with subs.
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How about Here I Stand?

From the description:

Quote:
Here I Stand: Wars of the Reformation 1517-1555 is the first game in over 25 years to cover the political and religious conflicts of early 16th Century Europe. Few realize that the greatest feats of Martin Luther, John Calvin, Ignatius Loyola, Henry VIII, Charles V, Francis I, Suleiman the Magnificent, Ferdinand Magellan, Hernando Cortes, and Nicolaus Copernicus all fall within this narrow 40-year period of history. This game covers all the action of the period using a unique card-driven game system that models both the political and religious conflicts of the period on a single point-to-point map.

There are six main powers in the game, each with a unique path to victory :
The Ottomans
The Habsburgs
The English
The Valois Dynasty of France
The Papacy
The Protestants


Or you could wait for its sequel, Virgin Queen.
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Stephen Coney
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fastspinecho wrote:
How about Here I Stand?

From the description:

Quote:
Here I Stand: Wars of the Reformation 1517-1555 is the first game in over 25 years to cover the political and religious conflicts of early 16th Century Europe. Few realize that the greatest feats of Martin Luther, John Calvin, Ignatius Loyola, Henry VIII, Charles V, Francis I, Suleiman the Magnificent, Ferdinand Magellan, Hernando Cortes, and Nicolaus Copernicus all fall within this narrow 40-year period of history. This game covers all the action of the period using a unique card-driven game system that models both the political and religious conflicts of the period on a single point-to-point map.

There are six main powers in the game, each with a unique path to victory :
The Ottomans
The Habsburgs
The English
The Valois Dynasty of France
The Papacy
The Protestants


Or you could wait for its sequel, Virgin Queen.


Thanks! I've had my eye on Here I Stand and I think that it might be the closest to what I'm looking for.

However, the one I'm REALLY looking for is so specific in feel that I don't believe that it could exist. It has to be broad enough to span most of the Old World, detailed enough to include Yeman, Genoa and other small, but important, political entities, and yet not require micromanagement. It would have to be a decent simulation, and yet not actually simulate the flow of events (things like rising European technological superiority are needless detail which would detract from the feel). In short, it would take a genius of a designer who really wants to simulate this time period.

I should probably just finish painting the minis I've got in my basement and organize a minis wargaming campaign using De Bellis Renationis.
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Earlofwessex wrote:
Some guys told be about a game in which the Axis player thought that this would be a great idea - he attacked Russia instead.


Has history taught us nothing?!
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Stephen Coney
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It apparently has taught HIM nothing. I hear that when he was playing the Allies tried to make a big stand, holding on to the Phillipines with way more resources than was prudent and ended up, due to this and other blunders, facing an invasion of the US or something (I forget what, but it was really bad).
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Stephen Coney
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Earlofwessex wrote:
You could always play World in Flames as the Axis and never attack France. Some guys told be about a game in which the Axis player thought that this would be a great idea - he attacked Russia instead.

By the end of the game the Axis was in such bad shape that the Chinese were sinking Japenese shipping with subs.


They said that it's really weird playing a game in which France never falls. There just aren't units for them to build in 1944 and games don't take into account what France would have been like after 3 or 4 years of mobilization - you'd have to guess at her technological development, which they don't.
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Philip Thomas
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Earlofwessex wrote:
fastspinecho wrote:
How about Here I Stand?

From the description:

Quote:
Here I Stand: Wars of the Reformation 1517-1555 is the first game in over 25 years to cover the political and religious conflicts of early 16th Century Europe. Few realize that the greatest feats of Martin Luther, John Calvin, Ignatius Loyola, Henry VIII, Charles V, Francis I, Suleiman the Magnificent, Ferdinand Magellan, Hernando Cortes, and Nicolaus Copernicus all fall within this narrow 40-year period of history. This game covers all the action of the period using a unique card-driven game system that models both the political and religious conflicts of the period on a single point-to-point map.

There are six main powers in the game, each with a unique path to victory :
The Ottomans
The Habsburgs
The English
The Valois Dynasty of France
The Papacy
The Protestants


Or you could wait for its sequel, Virgin Queen.


Thanks! I've had my eye on Here I Stand and I think that it might be the closest to what I'm looking for.

However, the one I'm REALLY looking for is so specific in feel that I don't believe that it could exist. It has to be broad enough to span most of the Old World, detailed enough to include Yeman, Genoa and other small, but important, political entities, and yet not require micromanagement. It would have to be a decent simulation, and yet not actually simulate the flow of events (things like rising European technological superiority are needless detail which would detract from the feel). In short, it would take a genius of a designer who really wants to simulate this time period.

I should probably just finish painting the minis I've got in my basement and organize a minis wargaming campaign using De Bellis Renationis.



Virgin Queen goes out as far as India, not sure if it includes Yemen. Genoa is independent in Here I Stand (as a non-player power), might be under Spanish control in Virgin Queen (which would be historical). Complete lack of Muscovy (or Poland, I don't know if you're interested in Poland?).

But the main focus in Virgin Queen is Western Europe- the Dutch Revolt and French Religious wars and the Armada...
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Stephen Coney
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Philip Thomas wrote:
Virgin Queen goes out as far as India, not sure if it includes Yemen. Genoa is independent in Here I Stand (as a non-player power), might be under Spanish control in Virgin Queen (which would be historical). Complete lack of Muscovy (or Poland, I don't know if you're interested in Poland?).

But the main focus in Virgin Queen is Western Europe- the Dutch Revolt and French Religious wars and the Armada...


Thanks for the info. You've pushed both games farther up my list. Recently, I've been reading about the Ottomans and their wars in various exotic locales such as Ukraine, the Eastern Med, and against the Persians. It's interesting how they combined with Venice to fight the Portugese in the Indian Ocean (and got thumped) in order to sever the new trade route running spices from India to Europe via Africa, and then were at each other's throats a few years later.

The more I ramble about this, the more I realize that what I'm looking for is an Ottoman-focused game, although I'm sure my interest will swing back west before long.

BTW, I only mentioned Genoa as an example of how detailed the game should be. My list of non-playable powers is about 20 long.
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