Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
11 Posts

Silverton» Forums » General

Subject: Unbalanced Start? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Joshua Gottesman
United States
Las Vegas
Nevada
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
We played our 1st game of this yesterday. It was the basic game with 4 players. It seemed like the players who started in Denver had a huge advantage over the two of us who started in Salt Lake City and El Paso. I was the SLC player. While a bunch of claims came out in my area, virtually all of them were coal which quickly became worthless in SLC (partially because of my amazing ability to roll 9 or higher on the price change every turn) and there were not many claims at all coming out near El Paso. Meanwhile, the 2 Denver players had many, many claims coming out near Denver, enough that they didn't have to compete for routes except a couple of times, and they finished far, far ahead of the two of us who didn't start in Denver.

Is this typical? Is there a way to limit this advantage? Has anyone done any sort of "balanced start" variant?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Blorb Plorbst
United States
Bloomington
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
I think we're all bozos on this bus.
Avatar
mbmbmb
There's a lot of luck in that game so your experience may have been atypical. I think there's a solid balance for the starting locations. Having to compete for Denver can be tricky also.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Iain K
United States
Arvada
Colorado
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar

Is this typical? No. El Paso and SLC have their own advantages. Both have the inside track on getting potentially lucrative passenger routes. SLC can pay a great deal for wood, and El Paso often has access to Copper while other markets don't.

The biggest thing in Silverton is knowing the region, knowing where various mines and ores are likely to appear, and building accordingly. I have seen SLC based on Coal, wood and passengers beat gold and silver barons many times.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joshua Gottesman
United States
Las Vegas
Nevada
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
citizen k wrote:

Is this typical? No. El Paso and SLC have their own advantages. Both have the inside track on getting potentially lucrative passenger routes. SLC can pay a great deal for wood, and El Paso often has access to Copper while other markets don't.

The biggest thing in Silverton is knowing the region, knowing where various mines and ores are likely to appear, and building accordingly. I have seen SLC based on Coal, wood and passengers beat gold and silver barons many times.


I never did get lumber near SLC. Every claim that came up except for 1 silver was coal. Finally near the end I was hauling lumber from Steamboat Springs, I think. We were playing basic game, so there were no train considerations.

The El Paso player got 2 copper mines, both of which depleted on the 1st turn.

I also realized that the El Paso player and I could have bought the claims near Denver and forced the Denver players to pay us for the materials they wanted to deliver.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Darrell Hanning
United States
Jacksonville
Florida
flag msg tools
badge
We will meet at the Hour of Scampering.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Newcomers to the game tend to ignore the passenger routes in favor of the high-grade mines. Both SLC and El Paso have no competition for their passenger routes, while the two Denver players have each other to contend with.

Also, you bring up a good point, with picking up claims the Denver players want.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joshua Gottesman
United States
Las Vegas
Nevada
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DarrellKH wrote:
Newcomers to the game tend to ignore the passenger routes in favor of the high-grade mines. Both SLC and El Paso have no competition for their passenger routes, while the two Denver players have each other to contend with.

Also, you bring up a good point, with picking up claims the Denver players want.


Well, the SLC - Provo route was a 1st turn buy (at a whopping $20 revenue) while the El Paso guy also picked up a passenger route on the 1st turn. I think we all recognized the potential there. And yet, we didn't have anything like the Leadville routes or the like.

Also, the big Leadville route was out, while no Leadville claims came out until late in the game, which killed the chance of it depleting.

Again, none of this takes away from this having been a good game, however there was definitely frustration from the El Paso player (who didn't have much to do most of the game) and me, watching coal route after coal route appear and nothing which could really generate money.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chuck Parrott
United States
Wilmington
North Carolina
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Joshuaaaaaa wrote:
I also realized that the El Paso player and I could have bought the claims near Denver and forced the Denver players to pay us for the materials they wanted to deliver.


This is your key. If the mines aren't coming your way, horn in on the lucrative mines that other players want. Splitting profits is better than no profits.

Also when you say depleted on the first turn do you mean he got 1 production out of it and it depleted the second time he ran it? It's not possible to deplete copper on the first run, only a couple of gold and silver mines can be dead claims right off the bat. The first time you run a mine, you roll 1 die and add 6 to the result to get 7-12 for production.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joshua Gottesman
United States
Las Vegas
Nevada
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
cparrott wrote:
Joshuaaaaaa wrote:
I also realized that the El Paso player and I could have bought the claims near Denver and forced the Denver players to pay us for the materials they wanted to deliver.


This is your key. If the mines aren't coming your way, horn in on the lucrative mines that other players want. Splitting profits is better than no profits.

Also when you say depleted on the first turn do you mean he got 1 production out of it and it depleted the second time he ran it? It's not possible to deplete copper on the first run, only a couple of gold and silver mines can be dead claims right off the bat. The first time you run a mine, you roll 1 die and add 6 to the result to get 7-12 for production.


Yeah, he got 1 copper out of the 1st mine on the initial roll, 2 out of the 2nd mine and then they promptly depleted the 1st time he rolled 2d6.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Boocock
United Kingdom
Peterborough
Unspecified
flag msg tools
Hi I enjoy Silverton, but if you play 'out of the box', bad luck in mines coming into play can mean a bad time for EP and SLC players.

Our group split the mines into 5 part decks, two fo the D area, 1 for the SLC area, ! for the EP area, and 1 for the central area.

Intially we pull out 8 mines, by taking 1 per part deck, and then going part deck by part deck in turn.

Each turn thereafter we draw to 8, by taking one card per part deck in turn, and go over 8 as we always draw a minimum of 5 new mines, ie 1 from each part deck.

This makes things a lot better, and evenly balanced.

JB
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joerg Schaefer
Germany
Frankfurt
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Joshuaaaaaa wrote:
citizen k wrote:

Is this typical? No. El Paso and SLC have their own advantages. Both have the inside track on getting potentially lucrative passenger routes. SLC can pay a great deal for wood, and El Paso often has access to Copper while other markets don't.

The biggest thing in Silverton is knowing the region, knowing where various mines and ores are likely to appear, and building accordingly. I have seen SLC based on Coal, wood and passengers beat gold and silver barons many times.


I never did get lumber near SLC. Every claim that came up except for 1 silver was coal. Finally near the end I was hauling lumber from Steamboat Springs, I think. We were playing basic game, so there were no train considerations.

The El Paso player got 2 copper mines, both of which depleted on the 1st turn.

I also realized that the El Paso player and I could have bought the claims near Denver and forced the Denver players to pay us for the materials they wanted to deliver.


We had a three-player advanced game to $10,000 yesterday and I was asking myself the same question of balance. In our game, the El Paso player won because of his copper monopoly until the last two game turns (finished after 12 rounds). I only was competitive because I was able to get all the big passenger routes from Denver and connected to Salt Lake City as well. The other Denver player messed up early in the game. If he had given me more of a challenge I wouldn't have had a chance to come anywhere near the result of the El Paso player.

My impression after reading this thread is that especially the Salt Lake City and El Paso starting positions can have a distinctive advantage or disadvantage depending on the claims coming out and the mining rolls while the Denver positions have less variance due to the big number of close claims and passenger routes and depend more on the direct competition.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brad McNellen
United States
Michigan
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
My last two games of Silverton sum up this entire thread quite nicely. The first was almost exactly like the game that precipitated the conversation in the first place: a lot of low level claims around SLC popped up early, and the SLC player basically built a spider web of rails out to those sites, only to have them all deplete early. He resigned in frustration after turn 6, with only a couple hundred dollars and one coal mine producing one unit, with a rock bottom price in SLC. The El Paso player didn't fare well either, with two copper mines depleting quickly, while the Denver players both enjoyed a large number of profitable claims and few Leadville depletions.

In the next game, the SLC player snagged a Bingham copper mine on turn 1 for a reliable source of some income (it depletes only with a 2), but found virtually nothing else nearby. A couple claims popped up in Dolores, so he made a beeline southeast. Before anyone knew it, he'd hooked those up and sneaked into Santa Fe and Albuquerque to claim those passenger routes, while also coming up with a number of claims on or near his main line, including a silver mine in Silverton itself that spat out an incredible number of units before depleting. Two turns later, he got another one, and with the price of silver somehow remaining above average for almost the entire game, he won a narrow victory on turn 14 -- over the El Paso player, who'd locked up all the passenger routes within New Mexico. The Denver players were considerably behind, as not many of the gold/silver claims in the area even appeared, and those that did fizzled quickly. They both had coal aplenty, and one had gotten most of the passenger routes in the area, but that just wasn't good enough ...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.