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Subject: No news? rss

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Anselmo Diaz
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I have pre-ordered a copy, but the lack of information is getting on my nerves!
The Sodapop website has no updates either. cry
Does anyone know anything about release date, publication of rules online, details, gameplay, review, or can post pictures?
 
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Chad Caughmann
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Echtalion wrote:
I have pre-ordered a copy, but the lack of information is getting on my nerves!
The Sodapop website has no updates either. cry
Does anyone know anything about release date, publication of rules online, details, gameplay, review, or can post pictures?


I can understand your frustration. The big question that you are asking is about release...and that has already been answered quite a few times in the last month. For the most up-to-date info you have to keep an eye on their Facebook page, because that seems to be about the only thing they've been using lately.

If you pre-ordered at GenCon or Pax, you will get your items shipped in September, while the regular release will be in October. The Dev's have said the product is being shipped (by boat, from China I think) to the US on September 15. I imagine that means it will probably be shipped out from Soda Pop sometime mid-late September. Hopefully they are getting their stock for regular release at the same time, and just taking the next few weeks to make sure everything is in line before officially releasing it. ***If you pre-ordered from any method OTHER than GenCon or Pax, you will receive your boxset in October when the regular release happens. Some people have mistakenly assumed pre-ordering from anywhere meant you would get the boxset in September, but that is incorrect. Only preorders from GenCon and Pax get their boxset early.

As for the Soda Pop sight...I hope the reason they haven't updated anything in the last 2 months is because the big website overhaul is right around the corner. It would make sense with the box game coming out. Frankly, it would be stupid to release your brand new box game without official forums where people can ask questions, post pictures, and discuss the game.

However, I'm not going to hold my breath regarding the new website. I'll believe it when I see it. Soda Pop said around December '10, that the new website was going to be released "very soon". They've gone on to say the same thing a couple of times since then, yet it's still the same old website. I just hope they haven't gotten too comfortable with the idea of only using Facebook. While it's nice for certain things, it absolutely sucks for others.
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Alan Kaiser
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thetang22 wrote:

If you pre-ordered at GenCon or Pax, you will get your items shipped in September, while the regular release will be in October. The Dev's have said the product is being shipped (by boat, from China I think) to the US on September 15. I imagine that means it will probably be shipped out from Soda Pop sometime mid-late September.


If that boat is leaving on the 15th then there is no way any product will be arriving in Sept. Shipments generally take 2-3 weeks just to arrive in the US and then they need to get through customs which adds more time. For other games made in China in the last year or so there has been a 4-6 week wait generally.
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Frank Böttcher
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thetang22 wrote:
I just hope they haven't gotten too comfortable with the idea of only using Facebook. While it's nice for certain things, it absolutely sucks for others.


Facebook gulp

Only few people own the game but they don't write a review and the playtesters are not allowed to say anything.

Frustrating.

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Siegfried Steurer
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Baerenkeks wrote:
Facebook gulp


thumbsup

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Baerenkeks wrote:
[q="thetang22"]Only few people own the game but they don't write a review and the playtesters are not allowed to say anything.

Frustrating.


You know, the demo rules have been out for about 8-9 months now, which are more than enough to get an overview of this game and write a review. There are people who have played both the downloadable demo rules, as well as played at conventions, and those that have commented say the game plays very similar to the demo rules, just with a few changes and additions.

If you are still waiting for a review of the game, reviews are already available.
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Frank Böttcher
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The complete rules are not the problem because I playtested them.

But I think the game could have more and better promotion.

Because they sold complete games at GenCon the rules are in fact no secret any more (sadly I don't have one of those games ). It would be nice if the owners would share their knowledge and impressions with the other gamers: components, rules, gameplay, etc. And I think also the playtesters would like to answer questions, but we are bound by NDA.

This is a fantastic game and it deserves closer attention.

 
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Jonathan Ramundi
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If at all possible, I'd love a PDF of the full rule book. The game has me intrigued, but the demo rules did not sell it for me.
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Alan Kaiser
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Baerenkeks wrote:
And I think also the playtesters would like to answer questions, but we are bound by NDA.


That worries me a great deal. I've never heard of someone doing that for a game, at least not right before the game is due to come out. Usually publishers want people talking about the game just before it is due out so they can get some buzz generated. IMO there has been a complete lack of any talk on the game since GenCon. The only thing that GenCon gave us was some new pictures and the delay announcement.
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alkaiser wrote:
Baerenkeks wrote:
And I think also the playtesters would like to answer questions, but we are bound by NDA.


That worries me a great deal. I've never heard of someone doing that for a game


I'm pretty sure any game that goes through a non-public playtesting period is bound by the usual NDA stuff. I was in the playtest for Malifaux a couple years ago, and it had an NDA all the way up til official release. We were able to talk about the game...whether we thought it was fun or not, but not much else. There's a difference between the testers getting to talk vague generalities about the game and being able to answer specific questions.
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Bobby Warren
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thetang22 wrote:
I was in the playtest for Malifaux a couple years ago...

So you're one of the people responsible for all the errata and rules changes... devil
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thetang22 wrote:

I'm pretty sure any game that goes through a non-public playtesting period is bound by the usual NDA stuff.


In the initial stages of development this certainly makes sense but here we are waiting for shipment from China. At this point there is no reason for NDAs. The publisher should be happy to let people talk. The buzz initially generated by the nice minis has long worn off and if they want to get some excitement generated for the game then letting people talk about the gameplay is a good way to do that.
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Frank Böttcher
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Bobby4th wrote:
thetang22 wrote:
I was in the playtest for Malifaux a couple years ago...

So you're one of the people responsible for all the errata and rules changes... devil


Maybe... You should have seen how much the game changed from the start of beta to release. The game ended up having an almost complete overhaul from the start of testing, based strictly on beta feedback...matter of fact, it basically went back to alpha stage for a little while (with all the testers still involved). People were giving their ideas for new characters and minions, as well as new abilities and such. Quite a bit of those suggestions made it into the game too, in some shape or form.

Matter of fact, the one thing I will claim is the Guild Guard idea (not the mechanics...just the idea). At the time, all the Guild minions were the specialized forces from the Starter Sets, yet we had all these stories that referenced the common guards and militia. I suggested the Guild should have some low-cost general guards that aren't affiliated with any of the original sub-factions. With quite a bit of work from the rest of the testing community, the idea was developed into the Guild Guards you see today.
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I just got an email about my pre-order. Looks like we will be waiting a bit longer than expected for the game to be released.

"This is a quick update to let you know that the finished games are on their way from the factory, and will begin shipping out November 7th.

If you were expecting it sooner, we do apologize; we had to correct some of the cards in the box, so you should receive the best possible version of the game."
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Kemical wrote:
we had to correct some of the cards in the box, so you should receive the best possible version of the game."
How it should be, imo.
 
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Kemical wrote:
and will begin shipping out November 7th.


Ugh... this is becoming a real test of patience.

They originally wanted SDE available by GenCon, but weren't able to make that happen...hence the delayed Sept/Oct. release dates. Now they can't even make the delayed release dates.

I agree with and understand the idea about wanting to make sure the product is perfect for release...it's a very good idea. But when a company has as many problems as Soda Pop has had trying to produce and market Super Dungeon Explore...it really makes me question the competence and ability of the developers to get the job done in an efficient and timely manner.

Having a great product is one step of the equation...but being able to deliver on that product when the consumer expects it is another big factor...and so far Soda Pop has been consistently striking out with SDE on the second 1/2 of that equation. There is always some reason why it gets delayed...and it seems like it's always "difficulties in production." If the problem is in fact the factories (as it always seems to be blamed on), then as responsible businessmen, Soda Pop needs to re-evaluate it's chosen avenue's for production...because so far it seems as though the production company they've chosen has screwed up SDE every, and I mean EVERY, time they've had any significant release for SDE.
 
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thetang22 wrote:
Kemical wrote:
and will begin shipping out November 7th.


Ugh... this is becoming a real test of patience.

They originally wanted SDE available by GenCon, but weren't able to make that happen...hence the delayed Sept/Oct. release dates. Now they can't even make the delayed release dates.

I agree with and understand the idea about wanting to make sure the product is perfect for release...it's a very good idea. But when a company has as many problems as Soda Pop has had trying to produce and market Super Dungeon Explore...it really makes me question the competence and ability of the developers to get the job done in an efficient and timely manner.

Having a great product is one step of the equation...but being able to deliver on that product when the consumer expects it is another big factor...and so far Soda Pop has been consistently striking out with SDE on the second 1/2 of that equation. There is always some reason why it gets delayed...and it seems like it's always "difficulties in production." If the problem is in fact the factories (as it always seems to be blamed on), then as responsible businessmen, Soda Pop needs to re-evaluate it's chosen avenue's for production...because so far it seems as though the production company they've chosen has screwed up SDE every, and I mean EVERY, time they've had any significant release for SDE.
This is very similar to the semi-tragic story of Leviathans.

After already having the launch date pushed back several times since late 2010 (I believe), they too were looking to finally debut the finished product at GenCon 2011, to have hundreds of copies available for sale, but numerous issues regarding the minis or dice--components whose production was the responsibility of contracted companies--kept cropping up.

I can sympathize that it must've been heartbreaking for Catalyst Game Labs not to have the game ready for GenCon, and, from what I've heard, it would have sold incredibly well too.

But, there is a bright side to all of this; something you mentioned: In the meantime, the product has been constantly undergoing refinement, such that, when it finally comes time to buy, you know you're getting your money's worth; a wonderfully polished game.

I, for one, am willing to wait. If I had to choose a problem for a game to have, it would be launch delay hands-down, especially coming from a company that won't be sitting on its ass in the meantime.

Don't get me wrong, it's still definitely a problem. A big problem. I'd agree that, as a business, they'll (both Soda Pop and Catalyst Game Labs, and indeed any other company in this situation) need to think hard about what needs to change to prevent future instances of this; in this case, who to do business with, perhaps.

However, at this time, while I'm sure some of the big guns at Soda Pop and Catalyst would love to see heads roll for this mess, it would probably only serve to delay the games even further. For now, if you really, really have a strong interest in one or more of these games, I think we can give the developers a little more patience for their hard work and dedication; blood, sweat, and tears. I'm sure neither company or game will disappoint.
 
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Alan Kaiser
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I can't think of a publisher that hasn't had a production delay in the last 5 years. Shit happens. I think several companies had problems at GenCon and there were a slew at Essen last year. When EVERYONE is trying their best to get their games published at the same time for the big shows there are going to be delays. I think I heard that a lot of the GenCon delays were due to flooding in parts of China. Point your finger and call the publisher names all you want but it isn't going to change anything. I'm sure they want to have their game in the hands of customers a lot more than you do! When you buy a niche product that is made in small production runs and shipped from half way around the world you just have to put up with delays sometimes. It's the nature of the beast.
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alkaiser wrote:
I can't think of a publisher that hasn't had a production delay in the last 5 years. Shit happens.


Shit happens, huh? You mean like this:

Sept '10 - SDE promo minis get put on sale on the SP website in limited quantities. Soda Pop's website has a glitch and ends up selling more quantity than they have. We don't find that out until after a few weeks of not receiving our orders, nor receiving any update whatsoever. It took 1 1/2 months for my order to arrive, and that's only after I contacted them multiple times asking what the hell was going on. Other than the website issue, there were also some production issues with the Kobold Dragon Priest that caused some delay.

This is the first big announcement/release after the game was announced at GenCon '10, and it went as smoothly as sandpaper, but hey...shit happens.

December '10 - It has been announced that the minis have been resized and are rumored to be ready for purchase around Christmas. Anticipation is high for the holiday season. The days of the month just keep going by and no official confirmation of the minis being available yet. It finally gets to the 17th or 18th, and they finally announce the minis are available, but they won't ship in time for Christmas. Bummer... There goes a blown opportunity.

The reason for the delay - problems in the production. They even didn't end up shipping until right around New Year's. It took a while because they had a production issue with the Demon-Kin Rogue. When they did ship mine, I asked them to ship it to a particular address, and they messed that up too.

This was the second big announcement/release for SDE, and it was littered with problems that prevented it from reaching the potential of a holiday season release, mainly because of production problems, but hey...shit happens.

New Year's '11 - the fans had been clamoring for official forums on their website for a place to discuss the game. It had been a pain in the ass trying to do so on FB. Right around the new year, one of the dev's made a comment that a completely revamped website, with a forum, was in the works and ready to go up VERY soon.

Needless to say...it didn't happen very soon, but hey...shit happens.

Spring '11 - we continue to follow the game...a rather uneventful period. We comment that the website update never happened. Soda Pop assures us that even though it went through some complications, it should be up soon.

The website/forum update still did not happen, but hey...shit happens.

Summer '11 - Since website still hasn't been updated, it gets asked about again. They say they are looking for a new web designer, but things should be coming along soon.

*Cough* website STILL hasn't been updated, but hey...shit happens.

August '11 - GenCon happening again. Soda Pop says they were hoping to have the game ready in time for sale...but ran into production difficulties. You could almost see it coming, based on their overall demeanor. However, you still kept your fingers crossed that it might somehow magically get pulled off.

What do you know, production difficulties prevented it from being ready for release at GenCon, but hey...shit happens.

Sept '11 - After being delayed due to production difficulties, we find out today that it is getting delayed, yet again, until November due to 'production difficulties'. I could get frustrated...but hey, shit happens.
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Christopher Taylor
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I'm looking forward to SDE and the delay is a bummer; fortunately, there are plenty of games left to play between now and when it ships.
 
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thetang22 wrote:
alkaiser wrote:
I can't think of a publisher that hasn't had a production delay in the last 5 years. Shit happens.


Shit happens, huh? You mean like this:

Sept '10 - SDE promo minis get put on sale on the SP website in limited quantities. Soda Pop's website has a glitch and ends up selling more quantity than they have. We don't find that out until after a few weeks of not receiving our orders, nor receiving any update whatsoever. It took 1 1/2 months for my order to arrive, and that's only after I contacted them multiple times asking what the hell was going on. Other than the website issue, there were also some production issues with the Kobold Dragon Priest that caused some delay.

This is the first big announcement/release after the game was announced at GenCon '10, and it went as smoothly as sandpaper, but hey...shit happens.

December '10 - It has been announced that the minis have been resized and are rumored to be ready for purchase around Christmas. Anticipation is high for the holiday season. The days of the month just keep going by and no official confirmation of the minis being available yet. It finally gets to the 17th or 18th, and they finally announce the minis are available, but they won't ship in time for Christmas. Bummer... There goes a blown opportunity.

The reason for the delay - problems in the production. They even didn't end up shipping until right around New Year's. It took a while because they had a production issue with the Demon-Kin Rogue. When they did ship mine, I asked them to ship it to a particular address, and they messed that up too.

This was the second big announcement/release for SDE, and it was littered with problems that prevented it from reaching the potential of a holiday season release, mainly because of production problems, but hey...shit happens.

New Year's '11 - the fans had been clamoring for official forums on their website for a place to discuss the game. It had been a pain in the ass trying to do so on FB. Right around the new year, one of the dev's made a comment that a completely revamped website, with a forum, was in the works and ready to go up VERY soon.

Needless to say...it didn't happen very soon, but hey...shit happens.

Spring '11 - we continue to follow the game...a rather uneventful period. We comment that the website update never happened. Soda Pop assures us that even though it went through some complications, it should be up soon.

The website/forum update still did not happen, but hey...shit happens.

Summer '11 - Since website still hasn't been updated, it gets asked about again. They say they are looking for a new web designer, but things should be coming along soon.

*Cough* website STILL hasn't been updated, but hey...shit happens.

August '11 - GenCon happening again. Soda Pop says they were hoping to have the game ready in time for sale...but ran into production difficulties. You could almost see it coming, based on their overall demeanor. However, you still kept your fingers crossed that it might somehow magically get pulled off.

What do you know, production difficulties prevented it from being ready for release at GenCon, but hey...shit happens.

Sept '11 - After being delayed due to production difficulties, we find out today that it is getting delayed, yet again, until November due to 'production difficulties'. I could get frustrated...but hey, shit happens.
You can't really lump the website issues in with the production ones, but that does sound rather...dicey (pun totally intended).
 
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Jotora wrote:
You can't really lump the website issues in with the production ones, but that does sound rather...dicey (pun totally intended).


Yes I can, absolutely...and I'll tell you why:

The whole idea that I'm getting at is NOT that there are production issues - it's management issues. If production issues happen once, heck...even twice...you can chalk it up to an unfortunate mistake in your processes. However, When production issues happen, over....and over....and over...and over....then you've got management that is failing to address the issues that are causing the problems. If your production company is continually screwing up...get a new company. If it is multiple different companies that are screwing up...as a manager you need to do your homework better and get in touch with better references and resources to prevent these problems before they happen.

The reason I lump the website issues with that goes back to the management issue. If you promise a website will be up very soon, and it doesn't happen...just like above...you can chalk it up to an unfortunate mistake...after all - shit happens....remember? If you say the website is going to be updated very soon multiple times over the course of 3/4 of a year, and it never happens...then its a management issue. Just like above - if the people contracted to get the website fixed aren't getting the job done, its the management's responsibility to address that situation and make it right, and they've so far failed to do that on multiple different occasions.

The overall theme here - if any of these issues were singular events - then yes, I would chalk it up to "shit happens." However, since there is a repetitive pattern here of things going wrong (production and/or web), and management not being able to address them in a timely fashion...AND prevent similar problems from occurring again in the future - that is a serious problem with management's ability to run the company in a efficient and timely fashion.
 
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thetang22 wrote:
alkaiser wrote:
I can't think of a publisher that hasn't had a production delay in the last 5 years. Shit happens.


Shit happens, huh? You mean like this:

Sept '10 - SDE promo minis get put on sale on the SP website in limited quantities. Soda Pop's website has a glitch and ends up selling more quantity than they have. We don't find that out until after a few weeks of not receiving our orders, nor receiving any update whatsoever. It took 1 1/2 months for my order to arrive, and that's only after I contacted them multiple times asking what the hell was going on. Other than the website issue, there were also some production issues with the Kobold Dragon Priest that caused some delay.

This is the first big announcement/release after the game was announced at GenCon '10, and it went as smoothly as sandpaper, but hey...shit happens.

December '10 - It has been announced that the minis have been resized and are rumored to be ready for purchase around Christmas. Anticipation is high for the holiday season. The days of the month just keep going by and no official confirmation of the minis being available yet. It finally gets to the 17th or 18th, and they finally announce the minis are available, but they won't ship in time for Christmas. Bummer... There goes a blown opportunity.

The reason for the delay - problems in the production. They even didn't end up shipping until right around New Year's. It took a while because they had a production issue with the Demon-Kin Rogue. When they did ship mine, I asked them to ship it to a particular address, and they messed that up too.

This was the second big announcement/release for SDE, and it was littered with problems that prevented it from reaching the potential of a holiday season release, mainly because of production problems, but hey...shit happens.

New Year's '11 - the fans had been clamoring for official forums on their website for a place to discuss the game. It had been a pain in the ass trying to do so on FB. Right around the new year, one of the dev's made a comment that a completely revamped website, with a forum, was in the works and ready to go up VERY soon.

Needless to say...it didn't happen very soon, but hey...shit happens.

Spring '11 - we continue to follow the game...a rather uneventful period. We comment that the website update never happened. Soda Pop assures us that even though it went through some complications, it should be up soon.

The website/forum update still did not happen, but hey...shit happens.

Summer '11 - Since website still hasn't been updated, it gets asked about again. They say they are looking for a new web designer, but things should be coming along soon.

*Cough* website STILL hasn't been updated, but hey...shit happens.

August '11 - GenCon happening again. Soda Pop says they were hoping to have the game ready in time for sale...but ran into production difficulties. You could almost see it coming, based on their overall demeanor. However, you still kept your fingers crossed that it might somehow magically get pulled off.

What do you know, production difficulties prevented it from being ready for release at GenCon, but hey...shit happens.

Sept '11 - After being delayed due to production difficulties, we find out today that it is getting delayed, yet again, until November due to 'production difficulties'. I could get frustrated...but hey, shit happens.
You went out of your way to obsessively chronicle Soda Pop's failures?

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I agree that it highlights another big problem that a lot of companies are guilty of: Making promises. NEVER do that.

You'd think they'd at least learn from the first time they couldn't keep their promise about the website; that they wouldn't continually promise "soon" and instead leave it at "TBA".
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