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Subject: Must you pause for interrupts? rss

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Atomic Robo
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This happened in real life with a few friends. Basically a Cylon player (who had not yet revealed) was Admiral and the jump track had just advanced to -3 pop loss if you messed up the roll.

In quite quick succession he blurted out Moving to FTL, activating. He grabbed his token, slapped it on FTL as he was talking grabbed the die and threw it before anyone could react. The move of course cost the humans 3 population and brought them much closer to defeat.

My question is this: Aside from being unsporting, is this, or is this not how the rules work? Must a person always pause to allow others to respond to an action with interrupts?

My second question is this: What about in a play by forum environment when there's only one Cylon (and he's revealed) and he gets a crisis such as Bomb Threat. Can he simply declare he's taking the die roll and not wait for the humans to respond?
 
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Todd Warnken
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In both cases you need to give everyone time to play interrupts.
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Joseph Cochran
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In PBF the moderator can step in and impose a reroll since he's an impartial arbitrator. In f2f it's hugely unsportsmanlike and our play group would absolutely allow reroll and would let that player know in no uncertain terms that the behavior is unacceptable.
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Atomic Robo
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Two answers, each excludes the other. Anyone else want to chime in? I really can't find anything about it in the rulebook.
 
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Mindy G
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I agree that you should always allow time for people to play their cards, that's half of why they exist. It's not a game of speed or beat the cylon to the die.
 
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Chris Berger
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This is a silly question. Of course you have to give people time to play cards. If you don't, then you give them the option of playing them after the roll because you didn't give them time beforehand. A person who's being competitive to the point of cheating is worth kicking out of the playgroup.
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Piper Jackson
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If you don't give people enough time to play interrupts, what is the point of having interrupts in the game?

In a similar vein, is it okay to flip over the table and just shout "I won!"? There's nothing against it in the rule book.

Sorry for being a bit harsh, but if you think about it, it is pretty obvious.
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Atomic Robo
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Oh, I totally agree it's annoying as sin. It's the downside of living in a tiny town with not many people to game with. He's also a person who insists on inserting the Steve Jackson rule (If it's not in the rulebook, the owner of the game is the final arbiter) into all of his games.

I appreciate all the input though!
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LL6869 wrote:
This happened in real life with a few friends. Basically a Cylon player (who had not yet revealed) was Admiral and the jump track had just advanced to -3 pop loss if you messed up the roll.

In quite quick succession he blurted out Moving to FTL, activating. He grabbed his token, slapped it on FTL as he was talking grabbed the die and threw it before anyone could react. The move of course cost the humans 3 population and brought them much closer to defeat.

My question is this: Aside from being unsporting, is this, or is this not how the rules work? Must a person always pause to allow others to respond to an action with interrupts?
For all interrupts, he needs to wait for people to either pass or play. Doing what he did is akin to just blatantly skipping someone's entire turn.

Don't get me wrong..... We've had some issues with interrupts in our groups too. While no1 has deliberately quickly rolled the die or contributed to a skill check in an effort to deny others the window of opportunity to use such cards or powers, sometimes people forget. They want to keep the game moving along that they take action without asking. To counter this, whenever I roll, I get into the habit of quickly asking people if they want to play interrupts. If everyone says no or "indifferent attitude", then I go ahead and roll. I even do this when it outs a unrevealed cylon, like when basestars shoot at Galactica

With die rolls, we only allow take-backs in very rare situations (e.g. someone didn't know that SP applied to both rolls in a reroll like with Helo's ability or Felix' ability from Exodus. We'll let him use the SP retroactively b/c that's what he would've done had he known about it. However, that's it. If it happens again, then you can only play the SP which will only be applied to the 2nd roll).

With skill checks, if someone forgets to play IC, then we play it by ear, and allow it if it doesn't possibly out anyone. The players who contribued will need to be able to get their cards back though.

LL6869 wrote:
My second question is this: What about in a play by forum environment when there's only one Cylon (and he's revealed) and he gets a crisis such as Bomb Threat. Can he simply declare he's taking the die roll and not wait for the humans to respond?

PBF games don't follow the full extent rule of IRL games. I was in bsg2 and it turned out it dragged the game on too long to wait for each instance of Evasive Manuevers when a series of 7 raiders were attacking, so in an effort to speed things up, later games, players were asked to leave COs well in advance (e.g. play EM only if the raiders have a chance to get through to the civvies, or only if a soft 8 got rolled... 8 after EM -2 on a piloted viper wouldn't count). Another common case is SPs will only be considered for Launch Scouts if there's only one raptor left.

As for your specific example, a mod shouldn't allow this. If someone tried to roll via geekroll, the mod would probably invalidate that and force the roll to be redon after everyone either passed or played an interrupt.
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LL6869 wrote:
Oh, I totally agree it's annoying as sin. It's the downside of living in a tiny town with not many people to game with. He's also a person who insists on inserting the Steve Jackson rule (If it's not in the rulebook, the owner of the game is the final arbiter) into all of his games.

I appreciate all the input though!
Well, couldn't you just argue that there's nothing in the rulebook that says you get to roll before people have a chance to play interrupts?


Piper Jackson wrote:
If you don't give people enough time to play interrupts, what is the point of having interrupts in the game?

In a similar vein, is it okay to flip over the table and just shout "I won!"? There's nothing against it in the rule book.

Sorry for being a bit harsh, but if you think about it, it is pretty obvious.
Yeah, now it becomes a physical game where someone needs to tackle him and pin that guy to the ground to let people pass and play on interrupts.
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Joe Reil
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The first one is clear - a reasonable amount of time needs to be allotted for interupts/reactions any time an action that might have one is resolved.

It's probably not in the rulebook because I think most people consider it a reasonable standard to allow a short pause for interupts/reactions when appropriate. The case you describe: Rushing to declare an action and resolve it specifically to avoid this is definitely pushing the bounds of sportsmanship and fair play and I'd have words with anybody who tried to pull that in one of my games.

Maybe this comes from having a background in CCGs, where reaction points are common but this shouldn't need to be in the rulebook.

This doesn't mean you need to wait 5 minutes after taking any action before proceeding - a quick check around the table is sufficient and if nobody pipes up in 3 or 4 seconds, then you can proceed. If I'm on the fence about a reaction I sometimes request a few extra seconds to think about it before deciding and this has never been a problem.

The second situation, I'm not sure - I don't have my set handy so I'm not sure exactly what's on that crisis: If it is a simple choice (Do X or Y) and the Cylon player (revealed or not) is given that choice by the game, then he's free to choose any way he wants. Again, though, if the resolution of that choice involves a die roll, the other players should be given a chance to react with Strategic Planning (or anything else that might be appropriate) before the die is rolled.
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Gregory Wong
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LL6869 wrote:
Oh, I totally agree it's annoying as sin. It's the downside of living in a tiny town with not many people to game with. He's also a person who insists on inserting the Steve Jackson rule (If it's not in the rulebook, the owner of the game is the final arbiter) into all of his games.

I appreciate all the input though!


I hope he enjoys playing all his games solitaire because that's where he's headed if he keeps this up.

Even though you're in a tiny town, you can always play via VASSAL. I'm currently in 5 player BSG game with my friends using VASSAL. I use the conference call feature of my cell phone to link everyone by voice.
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Christopher Watkins
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saxophone wrote:
LL6869 wrote:
Oh, I totally agree it's annoying as sin. It's the downside of living in a tiny town with not many people to game with. He's also a person who insists on inserting the Steve Jackson rule (If it's not in the rulebook, the owner of the game is the final arbiter) into all of his games.

I appreciate all the input though!


I hope he enjoys playing all his games solitaire because that's where he's headed if he keeps this up.

Even though you're in a tiny town, you can always play via VASSAL. I'm currently in 5 player BSG game with my friends using VASSAL. I use the conference call feature of my cell phone to link everyone by voice.


I understand this line of thinking. From a winning perspective, he doesn't want to pause and make the suggestion so that someone who is unaware and can now interrupt.

I think you should really just have some discourse about why you all are playing games, and make a pact or set guidelines at the beginning of a session.

He should at least slow play it though, without making it obvious that people have choices.

Follow up: Were you playing with new folks who might not have realized they had the interrupt for this? That would change everything in my mind.
 
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Atomic Robo
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Nah, he was just playing to win. In his mind if people didn't yell or throw cards fast enough it was their own darn fault.

Nice enough guy away from the gaming table though, just grew up on Magic competitions and enjoys exploiting situations where there aren't explicit timing rules.
 
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Joe Reil
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LL6869 wrote:
Nice enough guy away from the gaming table though, just grew up on Magic competitions and enjoys exploiting situations where there aren't explicit timing rules.


Which is weird, because playing lots of Magic in my early gaming days taught me to always allow time for interupting actions/reactions, because it's such a big part of that game.
 
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J Chav
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I would hope someone would do this.

If this happened and he rolled a 7 or 8 great for us.

If not I would allow someone to play a SP for a re-roll with the +2.
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Joseph Cochran
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LL6869 wrote:
Nah, he was just playing to win. In his mind if people didn't yell or throw cards fast enough it was their own darn fault.

Nice enough guy away from the gaming table though, just grew up on Magic competitions and enjoys exploiting situations where there aren't explicit timing rules.


The reason Magic has so many explicit timing issues is because it's grown a huge set of rules that are used in competition (with money on the line), and it is far more common (even if not in competition) to seek out new foes rather than repeat plays with your social circle. That engenders a kind of play that is very different from the social table, no matter how fierce the competition is at the social table. Outside of Magic and the deckbuilding genre you find a lot fewer instances of explicit timing rules.

The concept of "interrupts" in BSG is completely a PBF construct not present in the actual rules of the game. They are required because PBF imposes delays not present at the table and introduces new opponents not part of the established social circle. It's actually pretty fascinating how they've evolved, even down to a pretty sophisticated Skill Check resolution thread, but that's something that most players will never see or need as a social group will be able to sort it out by themselves.
 
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jsciv wrote:
LL6869 wrote:
Nah, he was just playing to win. In his mind if people didn't yell or throw cards fast enough it was their own darn fault.

Nice enough guy away from the gaming table though, just grew up on Magic competitions and enjoys exploiting situations where there aren't explicit timing rules.


The concept of "interrupts" in BSG is completely a PBF construct not present in the actual rules of the game. They are required because PBF imposes delays not present at the table and introduces new opponents not part of the established social circle. It's actually pretty fascinating how they've evolved, even down to a pretty sophisticated Skill Check resolution thread, but that's something that most players will never see or need as a social group will be able to sort it out by themselves.
I still refer to such effects and abilities as "interrupts". It's a nice, generic umbrella that covers stuff like IC, SR, SP, and character abilities.
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Joseph Cochran
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ackmondual wrote:
I still refer to such effects and abilities as "interrupts". It's a nice, generic umbrella that covers stuff like IC, SR, SP, and character abilities.


Oh, I refer to them as interrupts too, and have indoctrinated my local play group with the term and concept just because it's very easy. It's still a construct developed for PBF that isn't in the rules, that's all I'm saying.
 
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BSG ain't a game of spoons — you can't circumvent Strategic Planning just by grabbing the die and rolling it before anyone can react (nor do so for skill cards that affect skill checks by throwing your cards in before one can be played). I wouldn't tolerate it in a game at my table.
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jsciv wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
I still refer to such effects and abilities as "interrupts". It's a nice, generic umbrella that covers stuff like IC, SR, SP, and character abilities.


Oh, I refer to them as interrupts too, and have indoctrinated my local play group with the term and concept just because it's very easy. It's still a construct developed for PBF that isn't in the rules, that's all I'm saying.
S[peaking of which, I'm trying to get people to use the sector numbers for the MGB as well. In a 6p or 7p game, the pilots, ESPECIALLY the CAG, are often the ones on the ends of long tables, and they're the ones who frequently use their CAG title cards, jumping into vipers, and moving all around Galactica that they really should've been stting in the middle.

Saying sector #s would be so much easier than pointing. And they don't understand terms like bow, stern, bow-side port/starboard. Even saying in front of Galactica to the right has caused some confusion

It took me a while to get used to red1 through red3, then blue1 and blue2 for the jump prep track.
 
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Matt Clementson
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I've used the sector designations in an F2F game without realising - the other plays just looked at me strangely.
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J Chav
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My favorite,

Does anyone have a SP?

*All state at me blankly*

I mean a Strategic Planning...
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Danath wrote:
My favorite,

Does anyone have a SP?

*All state at me blankly*

I mean a Strategic Planning...
One of my favorites include:

Do we have a plan?

No, but let's play Strategic Planning to increase our odds of rolling high.
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