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Brass: Lancashire» Forums » Rules

Subject: Building over other players' coal/iron counters rss

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Finland
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The rules say:

Quote:
You can build on top of another player’s coal mine with one of your
own only if there are no coal cubes in Lancashire or on the Coal
Demand track. Your coal mine must have a higher Tech Level then the
one you are replacing.
The above rule applies to iron works, you can replace one if there are
no iron cubes left in Lancashire or on the Demand track.
Income Levels are never reduced due to the removal of an Industry
counter.


Does "or" here mean that both Lancashire and Demand have to be empty? or

Can it be just like if Lanchire is empty and demand track has cubes = it's legal to build

and Lancashire has cubes but demand track is empty = it's legal to build


I have always played that both Lancashire and the Demand (coal or iron) have to be empty in order to build over other players' coal/iron counters.

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Ken Thibodeau
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You can't have cubes on the map at the same time the demand track has empty spaces. You must fill the demand track first, collect the money, and put the leftover cubes (if any are remaining) on the tile.

Short answer: the "or" means "and"

Edit: see Chris's post below for a specific case
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Edwin Meertens
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RoadHouse wrote:

I have always played that both Lancashire and the Demand (coal or iron) have to be empty in order to build over other players' coal/iron counters.



Correct, see this post by Mr Wallace himself
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Chris Ferejohn
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fardoche wrote:
You can't have cubes on the map at the same time the demand track has empty spaces. You must fill the demand track first, collect the money, and put the leftover cubes (if any are remaining) on the tile.

Short answer: the "or" means "and"


Yes you can if there was no connection to a foreign market/constructed port when the coal mine was built.

However, you can only over build if both the demand track is empty and there are no cubes on board.
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Ken Thibodeau
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cferejohn wrote:
fardoche wrote:
You can't have cubes on the map at the same time the demand track has empty spaces. You must fill the demand track first, collect the money, and put the leftover cubes (if any are remaining) on the tile.

Short answer: the "or" means "and"


Yes you can if there was no connection to a foreign market/constructed port when the coal mine was built.



True. I didn't consider this situation.
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Thank you for the replies. I always assumed "or" to mean "and" in this case because it would be kinda weird to constantly build over your opponents' counters.
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Michael Rumaley
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It appears that, in an effort to lower production costs, the game was reprinted with a severe reduction of ambiguities.

The 2009 Eagle Games edition of the rules wrote:
You can replace another player’s coal mine with one of your own only if both of the following are true:
a) There are no coal cubes on the main board, and
b) There are no coal cubes on the Coal Demand track.

Your coal mine must have a higher Tech Level than the one you are replacing.

The above rule applies to iron works. You can replace an opponent’s counter if there are iron cubes neither on the board nor on the Iron Demand track.

The Rules and Reviews forums are teeming with numerous variations of what-the-heck-does-some-specific-rule actually mean. The latest version of the rules seems to nail them all down. 'Twould be nice if they were online.


 
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Eugene
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Would be even nicer if Wallace & Co. learned to be clear and logical in their Treefrog rules.

Here's a hint if anyone from that group is reading: Ask yourself not "Does this makes sense?", but rather, "How could someone completely misconstrue this?"
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PhygLeGuy wrote:
It appears that, in an effort to lower production costs, the game was reprinted with a severe reduction of ambiguities.

The 2009 Eagle Games edition of the rules wrote:
You can replace another player’s coal mine with one of your own only if both of the following are true:
a) There are no coal cubes on the main board, and
b) There are no coal cubes on the Coal Demand track.

Your coal mine must have a higher Tech Level than the one you are replacing.

The above rule applies to iron works. You can replace an opponent’s counter if there are iron cubes neither on the board nor on the Iron Demand track.

The Rules and Reviews forums are teeming with numerous variations of what-the-heck-does-some-specific-rule actually mean. The latest version of the rules seems to nail them all down. 'Twould be nice if they were online.



I'm not sure what rules I have got, I downloaded them somewhere once. I guess they are 1.0 or at least earlier ones. I have the German Kohle edition but my German is a bit rusty so the original rules are no use to me.
 
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