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World at War: Blood and Bridges» Forums » Rules

Subject: M60 moving fire? rss

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Stephen Foulk
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Hi - some of the M60s in the various units that use them (B&B and LoF) seem to be marked for moving fire and some do not.

Am I correct in assuming that all M60s were capable of effective moving fire by the mid 1980s?
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Kent Reuber
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From Wikipedia:

Quote:
In 1963, the M60 was upgraded to the M60A1. This new variant, which stayed in production until 1980, featured a larger, better-shaped turret and improvements to the armor protection and shock absorbers. The M60A1 was also equipped with a stabilization system for the main gun. However, the M60A1 was still not able to fire on the move, as the system only kept the gun pointed in the same general direction while the tank was traveling cross country. It did however enable the coaxial machine gun to be brought to bear while moving....

In 1978, work began on the M60A3 variant. It featured a number of technological enhancements, including smoke dischargers, a new rangefinder, and M21 ballistic computer, and a turret stabilization system. All active American M60s eventually underwent the conversion to the A3 model.


So, I'm assuming it might be an A1 vs. A3 distinction.
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Martin McCleary
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By the mid 80's there were several versions of the M60 series in service.

There were two versions of the M60A3, one was the Rise Passive and the other was TTS. The former had an IR searchlite and AOS - add on stabilization, the latter had the Tank Thermal Sight (which was actually a better thermal than that on the then new M1 / M1IP) and AOS.

The M60A1/A3 series could fire on the move but only up to about 12 mph (speeds varied depending on the tank and its suspension wear,road wheel condition and track wear. At certain speeds the vibration induced would ease up and the gunner could get a shot off). The normal technique was however to fire from a short halt.

The M60A3 TTS also had a much better fire control system with a laser range finder so it had a better PH against moving targets.

Earlier M60A1's also had AOS - add on stabilization and could fire on the move - again, very slowly, but it could be done (there was also at least one requirement to do so during tank gunnery qualification). By the time of this game all M60A1/A3's had some limited fire on the move capability but nothing approaching that of the M1 (or German Leopard II) series which was built from the ground up to fire on the move at speed moving cross country.

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Stephen Foulk
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Thanks for the info guys... and it certainly seems to answer the issue, of the three units represented:

2nd Marine Expeditionary Unit have M60-A1s; shown as no moving fire

1-68 Task Force has M60-A3s; shown as moving fire

1-32 Armoured has M60-A3s; shown as no moving fire

So for now I'll take the counters at face value as it seems there was significant variety of targeting systems.

I understand that that M60s were never as good as Abrams, Leopard 2 or Challenger but I had thought they were all comparable to the Leopard 1 or the Chieftain.

 
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Martin McCleary
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I haven't really looked at the counter values so I can't comment. Just depends on what the designer and his research team looked at and how they decided to address various factors.

I know from practical experience an A3 TTS would out shoot a Leo I or a Chieftan - assuming equal crews. In the real world the old Canadian Army Trophy (CAT) annual NATO gunnery competition produced surprising results, the best tank technically didn't always win the competition, it was the crew that made the difference (and always will).
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Mark Walker
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Argh!!...of course it might just be this simple...I screwed up. The Marine A1s make sense...the Marines always make do with outdated equipment, but it seems like all A3s should have Level 1 moving fire, no?
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Stephen Foulk
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I'm not so sure Mark... maybe the variation is fair enough even if not what you intended (?) but anyway it's easy enough to remember - or fix with a sharpie.

In fact, (although, I get a bit OCD about stuff like this) as far as gameplay goes I find moving fire to be a dangerous game to play if you're advanceing and I have to be very disciplined not to fall into that trap with the Warpac forces... far better to alternate units which move and fire.

I suppose what I'm saying is in the grand scheme of things Level 1 moving fire probably has minimal effect if you use your troops properly.




 
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Mark Walker
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Yep, I agree with that.
 
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