Darren Nakamura
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The second game of this I played was with the Emergence scenario, and I was playing as Baird. When I got to tile 12A, I appreciated that Baird can activate equipment for free, and that those grenades never run out. It got me thinking, shouldn't I just hang out on this space for several turns collecting tons of grenades, so I can essentially throw one every turn? So that brought up some rules questions...

First off, is there a limit to the number of grenade tokens you can carry? I don't remember reading anything about it in the rule book.

Secondly, can you activate equipment while in cover? Logically it would seem that you can't, but rule-wise, I'm not sure that it's disallowed.
 
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Michael Melbourne
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I would just enter the area, activate/pickup the weapon then enter cover as it is a free action for the Gears. We have been playing that you can't have more than 3 Bolo grenades per figure.
 
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Darren Nakamura
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Right, that's how you would do it if you are entering the area, but what I'm curious about is whether you can start your turn in cover in that area, make no movement, activate the equipment, and still end up in cover.

For the grenades, that makes intuitive sense, especially given that there are twelve grenade tokens for up to four players, but I'm still not sure if that's the official rule.
 
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Michael Melbourne
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Don't you have to use a card per turn, even if you are not moving? most cards say to move up to a certain amount of spaces. Play one of those cards, leave cover for free, grab a grenade for free, and then enter cover again for free.
 
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There is no stated limit to the number of grenades that you can carry. My crew plays with a limit of four. There are only 12 tokens, but there are few enough equipment areas to get them at that you will realistically never need that many unless you are actively trying to do so in mission one. Also, four grenades is the limit in the video game, so when we were assigning arbitrary numbers, it seemed to fit well enough.

The only limit on using an equipment area is that you have to be in that area. Therefore, there is no reason that your would not be able to pick something up while in cover in that area without having to move. Also, again, you can do so in the video game. I know I keep mentioning the "theme" the game is trying to keep from the video game, but that is what the game is built to be. Adding extra limiting rules that are not only unnecessary for game play but also don't fit with the theme seems counter-intuitive to me.
 
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Darren Nakamura
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I would argue that in the video game, you can only pick stuff up in cover when that thing is right next to you, and more often than not, you need to pop out of cover in order to walk two steps to grab a weapon or ammo. You could argue that ammunition and dropped weapons act like figures, in that if they are not in a cover spot, then they are assumed to be anywhere in a given area, which would allow for staying in cover while picking it up. But then, what about Troika turrets? Those are thematically stationary. Do you think you can activate those (they are "equipment," just like the infinite bolo grenades in Emergence) while still ducking behind a chest-high wall?

Don't get me wrong, you gave me an answers I wanted to hear, but I'm still not entirely convinced that it's correct.
 
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Dave Horn
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You can only pick stuff up during an Order. So you have to play an order card regardless as someone else already said. Moving in and out of cover is free. So you can't sit there and do nothing except grab more grenades. You have to play an order card, and once that card is played, moving in and out of cover is free.
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Kelly Overholser
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Also, page 14 of the rules does say "Being in cover does not restrict the player from performing special actions (such as activating equipment)." So, unless you want to make a thematic houserule, it's perfectly fine to stay in cover and keep grabbing grenades. You can still only get one grenade per turn, however.

As for limitations, unless I missed a rule, not only is there no limit to how many grenades you can have, but the rules also say to use a substitute if you actually run out of any token (aside from wound markers). So, if you're willing to spend the time, it's perfectly possible to get a ton of grenades.
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Dave Horn
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IMO - I'm not sure how any house rule is even necessary. As long as you play some order card, getting in and out of cover, executing your order, picking up those grenades can all happen in one simultaneous player action.
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Quote:
I would argue that in the video game, you can only pick stuff up in cover when that thing is right next to you, and more often than not, you need to pop out of cover in order to walk two steps to grab a weapon or ammo. You could argue that ammunition and dropped weapons act like figures, in that if they are not in a cover spot, then they are assumed to be anywhere in a given area, which would allow for staying in cover while picking it up.


I do view equipment and dropped weapons as being in a vague "anywhere" in their area like models do. Just like the characters, the items are static representations of a dynamic situation. I agree that sometimes in the video game items are just out of your reach while in cover... but to me, I see that as being the equipment in the adjacent space that you juuuuust can't reach. If you consider scale on the boards, most areas are not more than 10-15 feet wide, which again in video game terms is normally close enough to just scooch down a little ways and snag something. :-)

Quote:
But then, what about Troika turrets? Those are thematically stationary. Do you think you can activate those (they are "equipment," just like the infinite bolo grenades in Emergence) while still ducking behind a chest-high wall?


Good point. I could say that the only troika in game at the moment is not in a cover section... but that'd be the boring, easy argument. I hate boring!

Unless the troika is modified in a later expansion, I am of the opinion that yes, you could activate it while in cover. On the one hand, no, you could not be ducking behind a barricade and firing it, since it's a stationary standing turret. However, there are any number of instances in the video game in which a troika is placed behind sandbags/a wall/etc. While it is not exactly the same mechanic as using the cover with the "A" button, ducking behind it and all, it does make it significantly harder to hit the gunner... from the direction of the cover. Again, it has to be a slightly different mechanic in the video game since you don't normally use stationary weapons, but I feel it ends up with essentially the same result.

As a side note, I have mentioned before (on http://war-gaming-101.blogspot.com/2011/09/over-ruled-house-...) that I run the troika as a six-die, range two attack when its ability is activated. Otherwise you end up with inconsistent range, and a mechanic that differs from all other attacks, for no real reason.

Quote:
You can only pick stuff up during an Order. So you have to play an order card regardless as someone else already said. Moving in and out of cover is free. So you can't sit there and do nothing except grab more grenades. You have to play an order card, and once that card is played, moving in and out of cover is free.

Quote:
IMO - I'm not sure how any house rule is even necessary. As long as you play some order card, getting in and out of cover, executing your order, picking up those grenades can all happen in one simultaneous player action.


I don't mean to pick at nits, but while I basically agree with your end result, I feel you are getting to that result by a slightly mistaken path. On page 14, in the movement section about taking cover, the rule book says (text in bold for emphasis)

Quote:
After a COG figure finishes moving for the turn, the player may place his figure into a cover space in his area. Moving into cover is free and does not reduce the number of areas the figure is able to move. Moving out of cover is also free, and happens at the start of a figure's movement.


You MUST play an order card on your turn if able. However, there is a stated difference between playing an order card and moving. Moving in and out of cover is free... but only if you are moving. If you are only preforming an attack action, for example, you are not moving, and therefore could not move in and out of cover. As I said above, however, you should be able to get items from cover with the rules as they are.

-Mick
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robin dean
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that's exactly what I was wondering. How can you stay put and grap grenades when the rulebook says that you have to spent a ordercard and then do 1 of the following thing:

- move 2 area's
- 1 attack
- 1 (or more) of the actions on the ordercard

With this in mind I don't understand how you can stay in your area and just grap a grenade (unless off course you are performing 1 attack.)
 
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Dave Horn
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Good points about explicitly moving gecko. I agree the end results is the same, since you are either move 0 or n areas when you play an order card or attacking or both (in general, I know other options exist on order cards). Since the rules explicitly say you can pick up equipment even while in cover it seems all situations are covered.
 
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Dave Horn
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smokin gunz wrote:
that's exactly what I was wondering. How can you stay put and grap grenades when the rulebook says that you have to spent a ordercard and then do 1 of the following thing:

- move 2 area's
- 1 attack
- 1 (or more) of the actions on the ordercard

With this in mind I don't understand how you can stay in your area and just grap a grenade (unless off course you are performing 1 attack.)


Because you don't have to move the spaces on the order card. Its optional "0 up to N spaces" so you can chose to stay there... or say if you insist if you aren't doing an order card and discarding for 2 areas (which I also believe is optional), but even if technically not, you move out of your area and right back in your area in 2 moves.
 
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robin dean
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ok. thanks. that sounds clear. I just thought you had to make 1 of the 3 options. thank you
 
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