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Subject: Special effects from an attack rss

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George Vriese
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So here I am, having a dispute about Pokemon rules with my soon to be 10-year old.

Sharpedo has a Tight Jaw attack that does 20 damage. In small print it says, "Flip a coin. If heads the Defending Pokemon is now Paralyzed."

I say Sharpedo ALWAYS does 20 damage and sometimes it adds paralysis to the defending Pokemon, depending on the result of the coin flip.

My son says that ONLY if the coin comes up TAILS Sharpedo does 20 damage. If HEADS Sharpedo does NOT do 20 damage, it only paralyzes the defending Pokemon.

Quite a different effect on the game in my opinion so please any relevant thoughts are highly appreciated.
 
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Wiedewiet
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I'm very sorry to have to disappoint a 10-year-old, but the rules are the rules, he'll have to learn that someday...

The Pokémon ALWAYS does his 20 damage, and the Paralysis, which is an added bonus, is dependent on the coin-toss.
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Scott Lewis
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The number printed for an attack is ALWAYS done, unless the text of the ability specifically says otherwise. (IE, some will say "if tails, this attack does no damage" or something).
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George Vriese
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Thank you all for your input.

Hartelijk bedankt.

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Luis Felipe Kretzmann Raimundini
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So if the text does not specify the attack does no damage, it'll deal the printed damage despite of anything, right?

For example, Basculin's Final Gambit has an attack power of 80 and its ability says "Flip 2 coins. If both of them are tails, this Pokémon does 80 damage to itself". As Basculin's total HP is 80, it'll deal 80 damage to the defending Pokémon and then kill itself. Am I right or is this effect different as Basculin would die before dealing the damage?
 
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Wiedewiet
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tiofe wrote:
So if the text does not specify the attack does no damage, it'll deal the printed damage despite of anything, right?

Nope, I'm afraid you're wrong.
tiofe wrote:
For example, Basculin's Final Gambit has an attack power of 80 and its ability says "Flip 2 coins. If both of them are tails, this Pokémon does 80 damage to itself". As Basculin's total HP is 80, it'll deal 80 damage to the defending Pokémon and then kill itself. Am I right or is this effect different as Basculin would die before dealing the damage?

In this case, if you flip 2 tails, Basculin will deal 80 damage ONLY to himself. There's no 'dieing before dealing damage', there's no timing involved. Pokémon isn't so complicated a game. He just deals damage to himself as stated on the card. Nothing more, nothing less.

EDIT: You could compare this to the Confused Pokémon rules.
 
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Daniel Wilson
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Wiet wrote:
tiofe wrote:
So if the text does not specify the attack does no damage, it'll deal the printed damage despite of anything, right?

Nope, I'm afraid you're wrong.
tiofe wrote:
For example, Basculin's Final Gambit has an attack power of 80 and its ability says "Flip 2 coins. If both of them are tails, this Pokémon does 80 damage to itself". As Basculin's total HP is 80, it'll deal 80 damage to the defending Pokémon and then kill itself. Am I right or is this effect different as Basculin would die before dealing the damage?

In this case, if you flip 2 tails, Basculin will deal 80 damage ONLY to himself. There's no 'dieing before dealing damage', there's no timing involved. Pokémon isn't so complicated a game. He just deals damage to himself as stated on the card. Nothing more, nothing less.

EDIT: You could compare this to the Confused Pokémon rules.


Pokemon Professor (retired) checking in.

Actually, attacks are resolved in the following order:
1) announce attack; 2) if necessary, choose target; 3) if necessary, perform attack requirements (coin flip, discard energy); 4) if necessary, apply special effects; 5) check for Confusion; 6) perform attack, doing damage first, then applying any other effects.
Figuring our the amount of damage works as follows:
1) base damage (number written next to attack); 2) effects on Attacking Pokemon; 3) Weakness effect; 4) Resistance effect; 5) effects of attached Trainer or Energy cards; 6) effects on Defending Pokemon (Powers, Bodies, or last attacks); 7) place 1 damage counter per 10 damage; 8) do any other effects of attack to Defending Pokemon (discarding Energy, switching to Bench).
ONLY NOW do you check to see if any Pokemon are Knocked Out, by having more damage counters than their HP.

In the case of Basculin's Final Gambit attack, it will do 80 damage to the Defending Pokemon if you have the required 3 energy (1 water and 2 of any other type) and no other conditions apply. As per step 6, you will then flip your two coins. Should they both come up tails, Basculin will ALSO do 80 damage to itself. During the check to see if any Pokemon are Knocked Out, if both Basculin and the opponent's Pokemon are Knocked Out, the opponent will replace their Pokemon with one from the Bench first and will also draw their Prize Card first.

Any further questions, just ask. Be more than happy to help.
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Wiedewiet
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Daniel Wilson wrote:
In the case of Basculin's Final Gambit attack, it will do 80 damage to the Defending Pokemon if you have the required 3 energy (1 water and 2 of any other type) and no other conditions apply. As per step 6, you will then flip your two coins. Should they both come up tails, Basculin will ALSO do 80 damage to itself. During the check to see if any Pokemon are Knocked Out, if both Basculin and the opponent's Pokemon are Knocked Out, the opponent will replace their Pokemon with one from the Bench first and will also draw their Prize Card first.

Awesome! Thanks professor, I stand corrected modest
 
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Luis Felipe Kretzmann Raimundini
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Thank you very much, Professor! Your explanation was really clarifying.

Last time my girlfriend and I were playing Pokémon Card we noticed something really interesting about dealing base damage despite of (almost) any special effect the attack has.

I had Chandelure and I noticed its Flame Burst attack has a base damage of 30. Besides, it has the following effect:

"Does 30 damage to 2 of your opponent's Benched Pokémon. (Don't apply Weakness and Resistance for Benched Pokémon.)"

So Chandelure's Flame Burst will deal damage to the Defending Pokémon AND two of the opponent's Benched Pokémon (and it needs only 1 fire energy. Isn't that awesome?) and not only to the Benched Pokémon as the printed base damage will always be considered (unless the attack's special effect says it won't).
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Daniel Wilson
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tiofe wrote:
Thank you very much, Professor! Your explanation was really clarifying.

Last time my girlfriend and I were playing Pokémon Card we noticed something really interesting about dealing base damage despite of (almost) any special effect the attack has.

I had Chandelure and I noticed its Flame Burst attack has a base damage of 30. Besides, it has the following effect:

"Does 30 damage to 2 of your opponent's Benched Pokémon. (Don't apply Weakness and Resistance for Benched Pokémon.)"

So Chandelure's Flame Burst will deal damage to the Defending Pokémon AND two of the opponent's Benched Pokémon (and it needs only 1 fire energy. Isn't that awesome?) and not only to the Benched Pokémon as the printed base damage will always be considered (unless the attack's special effect says it won't).


Correct. Chandelure's Flame Burst can do up to 90 damage (30x3 Pokemon) for only 1 fire energy. It's a very good attack for sniping your opponent's Benched Pokemon.

And Wiet, don't feel embarrassed. I spent nearly nine years as a Pokemon Professor judging high-level tournaments, and I would have to consult the 300+ page book of rulings at least once a tournament. The various combinations and chain reactions of effects and attacks can get extremely confusing even for expert players.
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