Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
16 Posts

Gears of War: The Board Game» Forums » General

Subject: Table secrecy? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Asif Kazmi
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
I have not played this game but I was reading the rules. Under the "Table Secrecy" box, it states that you are not allowed to see other players hands but you can discuss your Order cards and strategy freely.

I'm unclear what this means in effect. I can just tell you whats in my hand but I cannot show you? Is there an incentive for players to lie?

As a semi-related aside, I haven't been able to enjoy cooperative games too much in the past because one player (the loudest or most aggressive) tends to play the game while the rest of the players just follow. Hence, complete secrecy would be more appealing to me.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Cox
Japan
Tokyo
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hurdoc wrote:
I'm unclear what this means in effect. I can just tell you whats in my hand but I cannot show you? Is there an incentive for players to lie?
I am not sure as I haven't got the game yet but a couple of FFG games has this rule. It seems to be a way to prevent one player from telling people what cards to play. That is all I can think of.

Michael
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
San Francisco
CA
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Since each card has 1 of 3 "general" actions it's pretty common for us to talk about "who wants to guard this turn?" (since players can only guard once per AI phase (however - there is a Cole-ception).

Then it goes like -
Player 2: "I can guard, but i would have to discard a REALLY REALLY good card"
Player 3: "I can also guard, but it will put me down to 2 cards left"

Also - the "teamwork" card requires some heavy planning as well. This lets you DRAW A CARD and lets another player "play an order from their hand".
So when that happens we usually discuss the options of what we can do.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Antigonus Monophthalmus
United States
Maryland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Hurdoc wrote:
As a semi-related aside, I haven't been able to enjoy cooperative games too much in the past because one player (the loudest or most aggressive) tends to play the game while the rest of the players just follow. Hence, complete secrecy would be more appealing to me.


This part answers your first part. Nobody can boss you around if you don't say what you have. The secrecy rule lets you use your judgement in deciding what to share, what to do, and this could be complete secrecy if your group so decides.

Really, it's a co-op game, so anybody can play with whatever rules make the game best for them.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Horn
United States
Coeur d Alene
Idaho
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Hurdoc wrote:

As a semi-related aside, I haven't been able to enjoy cooperative games too much in the past because one player (the loudest or most aggressive) tends to play the game while the rest of the players just follow. Hence, complete secrecy would be more appealing to me.


I think this is the only reason the rule exists. There is no reason to lie and no competitive metagame is going on. Its everyone against the locusts and that is all.

My son and I play with our cards face up on the table. I let him do what he wants, but do try to point out other options to him if I think he is missing something. But its his call and even when he has mortared us all to death we at least go out fighting and have a blast.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
-M
msg tools
You don't "have to" share what your hand is. That way, you don't end up with one bossy player running the whole four person party. You can share info all you want though, with the people you want to. Honestly, not communicating with the other players can make combat about as hard as real combat where you don't communicate (i.e. extremely lethal) but the rule is in place to try to avoid annoying, overbearing players. I always share info with my battle-buddy though :-)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Melbourne
United States
Shoreline
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The only time anybody has told another player what to do in our games, is when we tell my son NOT to throw a grenade into a space containing a COG.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Horn
United States
Coeur d Alene
Idaho
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Let him throw it! Its fun!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
T France
United States
Oakland
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Selurevad wrote:
Hurdoc wrote:

As a semi-related aside, I haven't been able to enjoy cooperative games too much in the past because one player (the loudest or most aggressive) tends to play the game while the rest of the players just follow. Hence, complete secrecy would be more appealing to me.


I think this is the only reason the rule exists. There is no reason to lie and no competitive metagame is going on. Its everyone against the locusts and that is all.

My son and I play with our cards face up on the table. I let him do what he wants, but do try to point out other options to him if I think he is missing something. But its his call and even when he has mortared us all to death we at least go out fighting and have a blast.


I think the rule also exists to facilitate more table talk/planning...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Asif Kazmi
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
I'm the OP. I just wish more games would have secrecy/openness "baked" into the game rules themselves. Like the new Star Wars LCG apparently has certain cards that force the active player to decide an option without discussing with his friends. I find most groups will defer to the more experienced/older/smarter person by default otherwise.

Edited for clarity.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Smith
United States
Wichita
Kansas
flag msg tools
Hurdoc wrote:
I'm the OP. I just wish more games would have secrecy/openness "baked" into the game rules themselves. Like the new Star Wars LCG apparently has certain cards that force the active player to decide an option without discussing with his friends. I find most groups will defer to the more experienced/older/smarter person by default otherwise.
Edited for clarity.

I played in a couple of four player games yesterday.
I think two of the players kept their cards face up on the table, while two of us kept them in more of a traditional card playing "hand."
No one dominated the game, everyone was comfortable the way they "held" their own cards, and all four of us had a great time.
I think the game will play great which ever way your group decides the players should hold their cards.
Kevin
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Horn
United States
Coeur d Alene
Idaho
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Hurdoc wrote:
I'm the OP. I just wish more games would have secrecy/openness "baked" into the game rules themselves. Like the new Star Wars LCG apparently has certain cards that force the active player to decide an option without discussing with his friends. I find most groups will defer to the more experienced/older/smarter person by default otherwise.

Edited for clarity.


Have you played/tried Space Hulk Death Angel (also FFG)? Its brutal and anyone who says it isn't either cheats, don't play by the rules, or is lying. But its also tons of fun and has a similar mechanic. The first player for that round draws a card and frequently needs to make decisions for the team without revealing the card in fashion to the team. In other words, its all up to them. Very cool in that regard I think. Every game every player will be making key decisions on their own multiple times during the game. Just be prepared to lose... LOTS.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Smith
United States
Wichita
Kansas
flag msg tools
Selurevad wrote:

Have you played/tried Space Hulk Death Angel (also FFG)? Its brutal and anyone who says it isn't either cheats, don't play by the rules, or is lying. But its also tons of fun and has a similar mechanic. The first player for that round draws a card and frequently needs to make decisions for the team without revealing the card in fashion to the team. In other words, its all up to them. Very cool in that regard I think. Every game every player will be making key decisions on their own multiple times during the game. Just be prepared to lose... LOTS.

Yep, and our group here really likes it.
We play with the order cards face up, but we do honor the decision making that the first player needs to make.
And I agree that it can be brutal.
The last time we played, however, for whatever reason we ended up winning with only one marine lost.
This is definitely *not* the norm for us, though.
Kevin
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Cameron McKenzie
United States
Atlanta
Georgia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Being able to effectively communicate and process information is a valuable skill. While you could dictate your entire hand to the team each round, it is usually adequate to only offer information that is needed and relevant.

If you leave your hand face-up, a huge aspect of the communication and coordination is lost. It does not, of course, have any impact on the information and decisions that are available to players, but has an enormous impact on how players process information and make decisions. This can change the way you experience the game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Cobb
United States
Conway
Arkansas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Selurevad wrote:
The first player for that round draws a card and frequently needs to make decisions for the team without revealing the card in fashion to the team.


I love this in SHA. I have the opposite problem in co-ops than a domineering player. Several players are afraid of making a decision that will cause us to lose so they always defer decisions to others. Being forced to chose, IMHO, forces them to learn from their mistakes and get better.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Horn
United States
Coeur d Alene
Idaho
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
I have this exact problem as well. However, its not a problem in SHDA game anymore. After about 3 times of getting our butt royaly kicked, my wife won't touch this game again....ever. Which is ok, its great to play solo.

SHDA was a learning experience for me as well. Wife and I played LOTR once and got creamed, so I won't let her play again until I create her a deck along with my deck that I know has a near 100% chance of winning. Should be easy to do as I have 2 copies of the core, plus all expansion decks so far and I'm winning lots just playing solo at this point. But that first game was a learning experience for both of us, just using a single deck out of the box deck (not even thinking to include extra Gandalfs at the time). If she plays 2 or 3 more times and we get creamed again, she'll be done with that game too! Got to stack the deck so we can win.

Gears isn't a problem, because my son will play that with me, more than any other game I currently own actually, annd we run rampant in that game throwing grenades, shooting mortars/boomshots... we have a blast win or lose and some of our loses have been more fun than some of our wins even.



 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.