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Subject: Anti--beserker tactic. rss

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Ryan Pelkey
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My son and I used the following tactic twice against the Beserker last night. X= COG, B=beserker, O= open

XBOX

If the Beserker AI card instructed it to move into the nearest COG area and attack, we would let it perform the move, and then the farther COG would "Guard" fire at it (for no effect) but activating the "move towards gunfire" trigger. This would immediately move the Beserker back to its original area, unable to attack.

Sound legitimate?
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Michael Melbourne
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you forgot to spin it 360 degrees.

it should read: XBOX 360 shake
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Mark Robinson
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LOL!

Yes, that should be a legitimate tactic because thematically, the Berserker will charge towards noise and in the video game, you only get smacked if you do not dodge out of the way. So, she's charged into your area to attack, but the gunfire from elsewhere has distracted her (whilst you've ducked, covered and been very quiet! ninja ) off she goes back to the noise.
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Kelly Overholser
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Do note that you can only guard against a figure that's moving or attacking at the time. So yes, you could attack the berserker when it's moving to move it away and prevent the attack, but you cannot attack a drone or wretch in a nearby space when you do so; you must attack the berserker itself.
 
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OpaqueEcho
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We began doing this as well, with a lot of success. We ran into a snag, though:

Marcus is in a space, and the Berserker is one space away from him. Cole is one space further, like so:

[Berserker] -> [Marcus] -> [Cole]

AI card is played, which dictates that the Berserker is to move 1 Space towards the nearest COG, and then Attack:

[Berserker / Marcus] -> [Cole]

Cole plays a Guard against the Berserker AFTER the Berserker moves,but BEFORE it attacks; this forces a movement of 1 by the Berserker:

[Marcus] -> [Berserker / Cole]


Here's where things get confusing:

1. Since Cole Guarded before the Berserker's attack against Marcus, does that force an IMMEDIATE movement by the Berserker? i.e., it doesn't make its attack against Marcus at all, and proceeds to move into the space with Cole.

2. If the above is true, does the Berserker then attack Cole? The Berserker card simply states that it moves 1 space towards any Attacking COG (in this case, Cole), but says nothing about attacking.

We played it as an interrupt, essentially, and that the Berserker's attack was lost. Our reasoning was that since the attack was initially going to be against Marcus, the opportunity to attack him was lost after the Berserker moved into the same space as Cole.

Normally, an enemy would resume it's intended attack if a Guard failed to kill it. In the above example, the Berserker would be unable to resume it's intended attack.

Has anyone run into something similar?


OglBrutus wrote:
Sethala wrote:
Do note that you can only guard against a figure that's moving or attacking at the time. So yes, you could attack the berserker when it's moving to move it away and prevent the attack, but you cannot attack a drone or wretch in a nearby space when you do so; you must attack the berserker itself.


This brings up an interesting question. In the rules clarification section on page 26 we see:

"Berserker Health Levels: The Berserker is the
only enemy that can be wounded twice (see page
17). The Berserker may only be attacked with the
Hammer of Dawn (found on map tile 17A) unless it
has already been wounded
."

If you can only guard against the Berserker, but you can not attack him, does that block this tatic? In my opinion, the tatic should stand... I believe a clarification is needed for the clarification. Did they mean "damaged" instead of "attacked"? The only reason I bring it up is because it's explicitly added as a clarification in the rule book.


Thematically, we interpreted it as "The Berserker may only be initially wounded with the Hammer of Dawn". You can still attack her for no damage, for the sake of getting her attention.
 
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Marc Guy

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Sethala wrote:
Do note that you can only guard against a figure that's moving or attacking at the time. So yes, you could attack the berserker when it's moving to move it away and prevent the attack, but you cannot attack a drone or wretch in a nearby space when you do so; you must attack the berserker itself.


This brings up an interesting question. In the rules clarification section on page 26 we see:

"Berserker Health Levels: The Berserker is the
only enemy that can be wounded twice (see page
17). The Berserker may only be attacked with the
Hammer of Dawn (found on map tile 17A) unless it
has already been wounded
."

If you can only guard against the Berserker, but you can not attack him, does that block this tatic? In my opinion, the tatic should stand... I believe a clarification is needed for the clarification. Did they mean "damaged" instead of "attacked"? The only reason I bring it up is because it's explicitly added as a clarification in the rule book.
 
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David F
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Guard wrote:
A player may discard a card with this icon at any time
during the Locust Activation step to attack one enemy
immediately before it moves or attacks.


Berserker wrote:
The Berserker may only be attacked with the
Hammer of Dawn (found on map tile 17A) unless it
has already been wounded.


Seems pretty clear that you cannot guard against a Berserker until you lure it out into the open.
 
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Ryan Pelkey
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Darnit. That's too bad, that can really save your bacon.

We were allowing the berserker to attack in the new space, if a target was available. Speaking of which, some of the beserket AI cards just wound "figures", not specifically COG figures. That means Locusts as well, correct?
 
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Kelly Overholser
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Atomlad wrote:
Darnit. That's too bad, that can really save your bacon.

We were allowing the berserker to attack in the new space, if a target was available. Speaking of which, some of the beserket AI cards just wound "figures", not specifically COG figures. That means Locusts as well, correct?


Correct, assuming they don't release any sort of errata or other clarification in an FAQ later.

As for not being able to attack the berserker, personally I say you should be able to attack it, but still not damage it. However, omen symbols can still trigger on the attack, if it would be relevant (say, a boomshot could still damage other figures).

@Opaque: You still try to resolve the AI card as much as possible, and you're not allowed to guard in the middle of actions, only between spaces of movement and before/after an attack. It will still attack whatever the AI card tells it to, if possible, regardless of whether the targets of the attack change after the guard card is played. (Also, note that if it was "locked in" to attacking a certain COG and moved, it would still attack that COG, as the AI card doesn't specify any sort of range, just a target, and all locusts have unlimited range.)
 
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Tim Kelly
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I think the rules and card are at variance. The "Berserker" enemy card says, in part, "If unwounded, this figure may only be dealt wounds by the Hammer of Dawn weapon."
Seems to me like it should be OK to attack purely for the purpose of "directing" the movement of the Berserker.
TK
 
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David F
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Shouldn't the rule clarification override the card? As in so many other instances.

Though it seems very likely that one of them is a typo.
 
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Tim Kelly
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selwyth wrote:
Shouldn't the rule clarification override the card? As in so many other instances.

Though it seems very likely that one of them is a typo.

Most FFG games have a spot in the rules which says something along the lines of "card exceptions take precedence over the rules". This game does not, as far as I can see. I've sent FFG a rules question, and will post the answer here when I get it.
TK
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Denmark
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Sorry to disagree on the thematically aspect. But once a Berserker starts to charge only a solid wall will make it stop. Shooting at it while its charging wont even make it notice you.

Thematically you should however be able to shoot at it, while its standing still.
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Tim Kelly
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tkelly wrote:
I think the rules and card are at variance. The "Berserker" enemy card says, in part, "If unwounded, this figure may only be dealt wounds by the Hammer of Dawn weapon."
Seems to me like it should be OK to attack purely for the purpose of "directing" the movement of the Berserker.
TK

Just got an email from Corey. He says it's OK to attack the Berserker with weapons other than the Hammer of Dawn, even though they cannot cause damage until after the Berserker is wounded by the Hammer.
TK
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tkelly wrote:
tkelly wrote:
I think the rules and card are at variance. The "Berserker" enemy card says, in part, "If unwounded, this figure may only be dealt wounds by the Hammer of Dawn weapon."
Seems to me like it should be OK to attack purely for the purpose of "directing" the movement of the Berserker.
TK

Just got an email from Corey. He says it's OK to attack the Berserker with weapons other than the Hammer of Dawn, even though they cannot cause damage until after the Berserker is wounded by the Hammer.
TK


OK, but what about the tactic of shooting him just before an attack in order to move him away from his original target? What happens with the rest of the AI card resolution after that move?
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Tom H
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After being attracted by an attack the Berserker will continue to follow the part if the AI card that it is following. Attacking each figure in it's area if...
20: a COG moved or attacked this turn.
21: a COG is not in cover.
22: it started 2 or less movement away from a COG.
23: it started in the same area as a COG (otherwise it will do 1 wound to all areas it moved into, IMO including the area moved into when attracted by the COG's attack).
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Vasilis
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Terah wrote:
After being attracted by an attack the Berserker will continue to follow the part if the AI card that it is following. Attacking each figure in it's area if...
20: a COG moved or attacked this turn.
21: a COG is not in cover.
22: it started 2 or less movement away from a COG.
23: it started in the same area as a COG (otherwise it will do 1 wound to all areas it moved into, IMO including the area moved into when attracted by the COG's attack).


I agree with your interpretation.
What do you think about the card Firefight? How should that card be resolved since it's the only one that makes the Berserker attack a single target and not an area?
 
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Tom H
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Thinking about Firefight, only now do I see the issue.

Say the Berserker moves 0-2 onto Marcus. Then it attacks Marcus... but Dom (2 areas away) Guards "before the attack" and distracts the Berserker off Marcus. Does the Berserker complete it's attack against Marcus? I say not. This is consistent with how I saw the Berserker's AI cards. The Guard happens before the attack, not as the attack is happening. It could cause the attack to happen to different targets (or not happen at all).

This "Guard changes the attack it happens before" issue is almost unique to the Berserker. There's one other I can think of: Marcus Guards with a Boomshot against a Drone in Dom's area about to attack the "closest COG in LOS". Disaster! The Boomshot puts Dom down but leaves the Drone alive. Does the Drone attack Marcus? My answer is yes, after taunting him.
 
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