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Subject: Encounter After Moving Through the Other Dimension rss

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Caleb Warner
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If I go through a gate and come back (gate is explored) and I do not leave the location. Can I choose to have an encounter?

Here is the example from the game over the weekend.

Gate is open at the Science Building. I have tons of monster trophies that I would like to convert to clue tokens. However there is an open gate at the Science Building. If I go to the Science Building, I will be sucked into another dimension. When I return, can I then turn in the trophies to get the clue tokens? Or do I have to close the gate first?

I didn't have enough clue tokens to seal the gate, so I wanted to be able to convert first and then use the extra clue tokens so that I could seal the gate.

To be clear, I was not trying to do this prior to being sucked through the gate, but instead after I had explored the other dimension. And I know that I couldn't leave and then come back, as the location would no longer have been explored.
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M.C.Crispy
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unreal41683 wrote:
If I go through a gate and come back (gate is explored) and I do not leave the location. Can I choose to have an encounter?

Here is the example from the game over the weekend.

Gate is open at the Science Building. I have tons of monster trophies that I would like to convert to clue tokens. However there is an open gate at the Science Building. If I go to the Science Building, I will be sucked into another dimension. When I return, can I then turn in the trophies to get the clue tokens? Or do I have to close the gate first?

I didn't have enough clue tokens to seal the gate, so I wanted to be able to convert first and then use the extra clue tokens so that I could seal the gate.

To be clear, I was not trying to do this prior to being sucked through the gate, but instead after I had explored the other dimension. And I know that I couldn't leave and then come back, as the location would no longer have been explored.
The key to your question (or my answer... or summat) is whether you play Richard Launius's house rule regarding the size of a Gate. If you play the Vanilla rules, then a Gate replaces a Location, so you could not have an Encounter while the Gate is open. However, if you play the Designer's house rule (where Gates are small relative to the Location and you can choose to encounter the Gate or not when you enter the Location), logically you could have an Encounter once you return from OW. But don't forget that you will have to deal with any Monsters that are lurking (at least you will after the turn you return from OW) and you still won't be able to leave the Location without discarding the Encounter Token. Otherwise, it wouldn't give me the vapours to hear such a suggestion. Others may offer a different opinion.
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Jay Brennan
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Page 22 of the rulebook, under the Miscellany section, the paragraph "Location Special Abilities" actually addresses this very example:

Example: The Science Building has the Dissection abili-
ty. This ability allows an investigator to spend monster
trophies or gate trophies in exchange for Clue tokens.
An investigator at the Science Building may use this
ability instead of having an encounter there, and investi-
gators cannot use the ability if there is an open gate in
the location.
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jayb3369 wrote:
Page 22 of the rulebook, under the Miscellany section, the paragraph "Location Special Abilities" actually addresses this very example:

Example: The Science Building has the Dissection abili-
ty. This ability allows an investigator to spend monster
trophies or gate trophies in exchange for Clue tokens.
An investigator at the Science Building may use this
ability instead of having an encounter there, and investi-
gators cannot use the ability if there is an open gate in
the location.
Indeed, but as I've already pointed out; the Vanilla rules are as you quote, but the game designer has a house rule that would allow the opposite. So the answer depends on whether you want to play Vanilla, or a Designer sanctioned variant. The OP has the choice.
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Gareth Roberts
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Opinion piece below!

The situtation you describe one of the few where it is the correct decision to close a gate (so you can access the science building to turn trophies in for clues) without sealing it.

These situations are few and far between, they contribute towards the difficulty fo the game by increasing the likelihood of getting doom tokens out.

Unless you are having serious problems with the game difficulty already I would rule that you may NOT have the written encounter on the science building while a gate is open on it. Instead if you want access to that location function you must shut the gate first.

My goal here is to help keep the game difficult.
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ilovedawkins wrote:
Opinion piece below!

The situtation you describe one of the few where it is the correct decision to close a gate (so you can access the science building to turn trophies in for clues) without sealing it.

These situations are few and far between, they contribute towards the difficulty fo the game by increasing the likelihood of getting doom tokens out.

Unless you are having serious problems with the game difficulty already I would rule that you may NOT have the written encounter on the science building while a gate is open on it. Instead if you want access to that location function you must shut the gate first.

My goal here is to help keep the game difficult.
I would go with whatever "feels right" to you. You may feel that there's a better Thematic feel for hunting the locale for clues to help you seal a Gate (and perhaps you might even expect to find them in the Science Building), or you might not. It doesn't matter. Whichever you're comfortable with (after all, what are the odds of a Gate on the Science Building when you're loaded with Trophies but not Clues?). RL himself says
Quote:
Having fun playing Arkham Horror is as much about the creativity and imagination of the players as it is about the various encounters and battles within the game. Therefore, like most role-playing games, people should feel free to craft changes to the game to make it more enjoyable for their gaming group. This statement in no way means that the rules are incomplete, but rather that the rules are a sound basis for play that can be altered by consent of the players prior to starting to better meet the gaming style and experience level of the collective players.
So I wouldn't worry so much about whether you're offending purists (who, in the words of Half Man, Half Biscuit, should be "irked" anyway ), neither should you be worried about those who consider that you are nerfing the game. Just be aware that one approach is Vanilla rules, the other a Variant.

And have fun!
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Gareth Roberts
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I agree with you here (^) and I'd definitely say that house ruling Arkham can take it from 'great' to 'amazing.' For instance, having used it once, I'd never again play without the rule that 2 monsters come out of the first gate (or 3 in higher player counts,) though this did lead to an hilarious black goat double gate card opening which I ruled gave me 4 monsters out on on turn 1!

Just throwing my opinion out and tried to make it clear (with the first line of the post) that as an 'opinion' it should be taken as such, while hopefully I backed up my stance in the eyes of the OP with a reasonable point about difficulty that they can choose to take on board or ignore.

Ahh, writing about opinion makes me feel uneasy about the division of facts and opinions in discussion, as if there is one! Objective knowledge is not possible!

Wait I think I can hear the Star Spawn of Ayn Rand coming to punch me in the neck, and moderators for getting off topic. This is probably for the best.
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ilovedawkins wrote:
I agree with you here (^) and I'd definitely say that house ruling Arkham can take it from 'great' to 'amazing.' For instance, having used it once, I'd never again play without the rule that 2 monsters come out of the first gate (or 3 in higher player counts,) though this did lead to an hilarious black goat double gate card opening which I ruled gave me 4 monsters out on on turn 1!

Just throwing my opinion out and tried to make it clear (with the first line of the post) that as an 'opinion' it should be taken as such, while hopefully I backed up my stance in the eyes of the OP with a reasonable point about difficulty that they can choose to take on board or ignore.

Ahh, writing about opinion makes me feel uneasy about the division of facts and opinions in discussion, as if there is one! Objective knowledge is not possible!

Wait I think I can hear the Star Spawn of Ayn Rand coming to punch me in the neck, and moderators for getting off topic. This is probably for the best.
Gareth, I'm not disagreeing with you; you are, as you say, merely expressing an opinion. To some degree I am trying to provide a counterbalance (as well as remaining neutral by presenting options without - I hope - bias).

Opinion with Arkham is often held at extremes with the "rules fascists" at one end and the "rules anarchists" at the other. (Not pegging you at either end) For me it's important that a new or newer player is encouraged to play and enjoy the game without feeling pressured to align themselves with one camp or another. There is no right or wrong here - unless you're not having fun!
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Caleb Warner
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Thanks guys for your opinions and rule clarifications.

In that specific game, it didn't even end up mattering. When I got to the science building, I had to kill a Warlock, which gave me enough clue tokens to seal the gate regardles (gotta remember to look for those situations in the future too).

Once I went through the portal, I ended up getting lost in time and space anyway, and a friend of mine made it back through his portal and sealed it before I got out.

I'd gotten really tired of the game (it had been going for 5 hours with 3 of us against Nharlthotep), since we'd been hit by a bunch of really bad rumor cards, so I was really just looking for ways to end the game.

I didn't think to check the rules at the time to see if I could do it, and just made a snap judgement that I could if I came back through. I was posting to see these exact things. I wanted to know if it was a valid play, and get some opinions on how it could be played.

I remember reading on here somewhere (or maybe in the rules), that you go to a location, and while the gate is small, you don't know it's there, and that's why you get sucked through immediately. I thought that since you could come back and not have to worry about falling through again, that you could probably take an encounter there.

Thanks for giving me both the rules as written, and the desginers opinion on how to play these.

BTW, I probably will try that two monster out the first gate in my next game. I'm always disappointed to see how empty the board seems at the beginning of the game.
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unreal41683 wrote:
Thanks guys for your opinions and rule clarifications.

In that specific game, it didn't even end up mattering. When I got to the science building, I had to kill a Warlock, which gave me enough clue tokens to seal the gate regardles (gotta remember to look for those situations in the future too).

Once I went through the portal, I ended up getting lost in time and space anyway, and a friend of mine made it back through his portal and sealed it before I got out.

I'd gotten really tired of the game (it had been going for 5 hours with 3 of us against Nharlthotep), since we'd been hit by a bunch of really bad rumor cards, so I was really just looking for ways to end the game.

I didn't think to check the rules at the time to see if I could do it, and just made a snap judgement that I could if I came back through. I was posting to see these exact things. I wanted to know if it was a valid play, and get some opinions on how it could be played.

I remember reading on here somewhere (or maybe in the rules), that you go to a location, and while the gate is small, you don't know it's there, and that's why you get sucked through immediately. I thought that since you could come back and not have to worry about falling through again, that you could probably take an encounter there.

Thanks for giving me both the rules as written, and the desginers opinion on how to play these.

BTW, I probably will try that two monster out the first gate in my next game. I'm always disappointed to see how empty the board seems at the beginning of the game.
Yeah, the two Monster thing was another designer's house rule that actually made it into the rulebook for the second edition (the current edition). If you're interested in some more of RL's house rules (some for noobs, some to make the game harder for "pros") take a look at http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/Arkham_Horror/...
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