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Subject: CNN debate tonight is fail rss

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Xander Fulton
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I really wish politicians would stop doing this, and I was kinda hoping it was a flash-in-the-pan thing in the last election cycle, but it has obviously stuck, and was in full bloom tonight.

It's the flat-out "That's an interesting question, but I have an unrelated talking point I want to make, so I'm going to go ahead and ignore it and start talking to one of my bullet points"

Very annoying.
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Xander Fulton
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Gods, this is so annoying. These people would all fail debate class.

"Candidate Y, can you offer us some of your thoughts on point X, please?"

'Hmmm...no, I'd rather talk to one of the prior discussions unrelated to why you just gave me the mic, because that other discussion is closer to my talking points, and this current question is uncomfortable. REDIRECT! REDIRECT!'
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Chad Ellis
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XanderF wrote:
Gods, this is so annoying. These people would all fail debate class.


Don't blame them, blame us. The unfortunate reality is that while they would fail debate class, those 'winning' debates would fail "getting elected class".
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Ben Vincent
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It is kind of ironic though. I suspect the people who actually watch debates - especially primary debates - tend to be the ones who actually want to hear substantive answers rather than talking points.
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John O'Haver
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At least, I didn't miss anything by playing Dead Island on Xbox Live with my sons. We beat many of the undead to death for little progress. Probably in the same manner the candidates beat their undead talking points to death for little progress.
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Xander Fulton
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Chad_Ellis wrote:
XanderF wrote:
Gods, this is so annoying. These people would all fail debate class.


Don't blame them, blame us. The unfortunate reality is that while they would fail debate class, those 'winning' debates would fail "getting elected class".


I dunno - one of the exchanges tonight came off particularly weak.

It was Bachmann vs Perry on the whole vaccination thing. Bachmann says something along the lines of 'government forcing treatments on children', Perry shoots back with 'This was something done for Texas, we felt it was appropriate, and there was an opt-out, anyway'.

To which Bachmann replies...'government shouldn't be forcing medical decisions on children without giving them any choice'.

Wait, what? Not less than 10 seconds prior to that statement, Perry had just mentioned that the program had an opt-out? The response she had would mean either of:

A) She was too stupid to understand his response, or at least deviate from her talking points in a single adjective.

B) There is some nuance to his 'opt out' that implied it wasn't an effective 'choice'. For example, maybe the opt-out wasn't made clear it could be done without harm to education choices, maybe the opt-out wasn't communicated on every message about the vaccination program, maybe the opt-out was buried in some fine print, somewhere (in which case, hey, make another talking about 'given how much time and financial pressure the middle class is under, relying on them understanding an opt-out is available by taking time they rarely have to pore through legal documents, is effectively still forcing the decision'), etc. This could be explained, and it would be right back in Perry's face.

But the opportunity was missed in favor of hitting a talking point, again, and this being one that was specifically refuted just seconds earlier (at least, refuted in whole without the provision of qualifying factors that she never tried to present).

THAT is the most irritating thing. It's not just the constant beating on the talking points and doing so when it's inappropriate, but the beating on the talking points when it makes no sense to do so and actually WEAKENS your position!
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Boaty McBoatface
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Chad_Ellis wrote:
XanderF wrote:
Gods, this is so annoying. These people would all fail debate class.


Don't blame them, blame us. The unfortunate reality is that while they would fail debate class, those 'winning' debates would fail "getting elected class".


Im agree, they do this becaseu we let them, and we get the politicians we deserve.
 
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Eagle-Eyed Superhawk
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XanderF wrote:
I really wish politicians would stop doing this, and I was kinda hoping it was a flash-in-the-pan thing in the last election cycle, but it has obviously stuck, and was in full bloom tonight.

It's the flat-out "That's an interesting question, but I have an unrelated talking point I want to make, so I'm going to go ahead and ignore it and start talking to one of my bullet points"

Very annoying.


Totally.

But look what happened to Perry when he answered a question (relatively) honestly and directly, "Yes, my HPV vaccine policy was a mistake." Mecha-Bachmann's honest-response-detectors went berserk and she spent the rest of the night firing bullshit missiles at him. As did some of the others. By not sliming his way around the question like a good politician he made himself an easy target.

Also, what was up with all the treason accusations?
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Xander Fulton
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The CNN article posted today on the debate pointed out another instance of 'missing queues':

Quote:
"The drug company gave thousand of dollars in political donations to the governor," Bachmann said. "And this is just flat-out wrong."

The moment came as CNN moderator Wolf Blitzer was about to turn to former Sen. Rick Santorum for his take on the controversy. But Perry was given a chance to respond.

"The company was Merck, and it was a $5,000 contribution that I had received from them. I raise about $30 million. And if you're saying that I can be bought for $5,000, I'm offended," Perry replied.

Bachmann, who was reluctant to do battle in last week's debate in California, could have landed a knockout punch. She could have asked: "So governor, what is your price?" But she allowed the debate to move on.


I dunno, are these supposed to be the candidates for leader of the most powerful nation on the planet. That she WASN'T able to capitalize on that comment speaks ill of her, of course, but he really shouldn't have said anything that left him so wide open.

A better answer would be 'if we looked at your own campaign contributions, I'm sure we'd see some over $5,000 - are you implying all politicians who receive contributions that large are 'bought and paid for''? THAT would actually address the question she brought up instead of the defensive dodge we got (and apparent retreat to a bullet point without considering the question - IE., "I'm not a crony capitalist" paired with "I made a mistake on the HPV thing and it won't happen at the Federal level")
 
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John O'Haver
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You guys are making me sorry I missed it. Apparently I forgot that one doesn't watch these debates for substance but for style. I promise I won't miss the next one.
 
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Xander Fulton
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scribidinus wrote:
You guys are making me sorry I missed it. Apparently I forgot that one doesn't watch these debates for substance but for style. I promise I won't miss the next one.


Oh, geez, if you are watching for *substance*, it's just game over!

Back in the last election cycle, we made a point of hitting up the pubs for debate night. As we're on the West Coast, they were well timed to start pretty much exactly when our local pubs have happy hour starting (political debates, generally, nobody bothers to time-shift). I recall the Biden vs Palin debate was *particularly* hilarious to watch with a few pints of beer...
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