Adam Mitchell
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I've played nine games of Twilight Imperium now and so far the Hacan have never come up. It is surely, however, a mere matter of time before they do, and so my question is this: From looking at their sheet it seems that the Hacan would do a lot better in a six player game than a three player game. Aren't the Hacan considerably disadvantaged in a three player game?
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Mikkel Basse Nielsen
Denmark
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The answer would probably be a resounding YES, much like they are probably too good in an 8-player game.

I can't say from experience though. I've only ever played 5 or 6 player games, but it would seem to me that the relative gains the Hacaan would make compared to the rest of the table in a 3-player game would be rather poor, and it would be too easy for Hacaan's opponents to manage their bonus.

Regardless, 3-player games of all sorts in all genres are inherently flawed - or at least fragile - constructs, as they are much more vulnerable to short and long-term alliances or will usually end with the person being beaten the least (or helped the most) winning, which is harder to counteract in a game with only 3 players.
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Necessary Evil
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Glen Arm
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I will crush you with Hacan in a 3 player game..... These guys are rich... period. They are always one of the easier races to play.

-M
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Brian Petersen
United States
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I've played maybe 3 or 4 3 player games against Hacan. They keep they're TAs active until about Round 3, and then they generally can only keep one agreement active. Hacan's new racial has given them the win before, as they were able to sneakily get it after their trade partner had passed.

We've now house-ruled it that the Hacan must announce they have gotten this tech. We do the same when someone gets Lightwave Deflectors. Since Hacan pointed out they had it during the Strategy Phase, their trade partner passed on Bureau so the second player could keep it out of the Hacan's hands. Unfortunately, nothing can keep the Hacan from either stealing Assembly II or picking Assembly II themselves, so they were still ensured to pick Bureau first next round. To add insult to injury, they traded Dip II for Tech II, so the Speaker token utterly failed the Hacan's trade partner.

I've won with Naalu every time in 3-4 player games since I'm never beaten. I get my racial tech by round 3 when people are finally in range of me, and I have so many CC's that I can afford to Tactical Retreat until I think I can win the fight. I also usually get Dacxive Animators, so converting enemy GFs tends to keep them from being able to take planets back, and having my fighters invade with Graviton Negator tends to mean I can take it right back.
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possum man
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I won't repeat points already made, but one extra thing is that thanks to their 3 contracts and racial tech, they can usually keep one player sweet enough so that they don't get double-teamed.
Also they do guarantee getting the better of each other players' trade contract, meaning the other other player guarantees getting a worse one than you.
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Paul Couch
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Smart players would simply refuse to trade with the Hacan - you know that they are getting more out of it then you.
If even one player refuses, the hacan get maybe 2 tg's for TA's and another 4 if they take trade. This is down from the 7 they normally get (2+2 plus 2 from racial plus 2 from micro -1). they normal massive advatage is gone.
I also think the the new tech is a balance to the Hacan - they are too good, and this is meant to bring them down - as you have to be very careful about trading with them - sure the 3's are nice, but a 2 is almost as good, and doesn't come with 'by the way, i have just won the game'
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Martin Larouche
Canada
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In our games, we find that the Hacan are only good if someone picks the Trade card. If no one takes it, they really arn't as good.

Things is, when the Hacan are there, no one wants to take Trade as it gives them (the Hacan) a bigger advantage when it's played. So the Hacan is stuck playing it over and over... meaning no techs, no bureaucracy, etc. Their new racial let them come a bit over that, but you don't really have a choice over what the other players are taking.
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Bill Norton
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malloc wrote:
I will crush you with Hacan in a 3 player game..... These guys are rich... period. They are always one of the easier races to play.

-M


Really, how so? I am curious as to how they are superior in a three player game or is it just your skills?

Bill
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Brian Petersen
United States
Texas
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It must be that his game group wants those 3's so bad that they'll take both the Hacan's 3's and let them get 6-10 TGs each round to turtle up before the other 2 players can reach them with a measly 4-6 TGs per round.

The Hacan are best in an 8 player game, since someone across the map is almost always willing to take that 3, and someone always must pick Trade.

deedob wrote:

Things is, when the Hacan are there, no one wants to take Trade as it gives them (the Hacan) a bigger advantage when it's played. So the Hacan is stuck playing it over and over... meaning no techs, no bureaucracy, etc. Their new racial let them come a bit over that, but you don't really have a choice over what the other players are taking.


In my experience, as soon as Hacan gets their new racial tech, both of their TAs are broken either during the same round, or immediately in the next round, and never re-established, because nobody wants their SC stolen, especially using Imperial I (or II).

Typically, the increased income from picking Trade themselves, they can afford the secondary of Tech, meet one of the objectives (combat or spending), and have influence planets to buy CCs. If they would rather take 10+ TGs than get more CCs, techs, or objectives per round, that's their own problem.

Sometimes it's better to ignore some of your racial abilities and just play the map. (Looking at you, Letnev TG ability) I'm not afraid to pick Tech myself as Jol-Nar if the map isn't picking it, and as Hacan, I'll forego Trade if I need to buy 2 techs one round, or to get more VPs in a round, ala Imperial II or Bureaucracy.
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