Sean Foulon
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Washington
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When a player is one district away from winning the game, is it legal for the remaining players to conspire against him in the following fashion:

1. All the remaining players reveal their identity at the beginning of the new round, thereby deducing the identity of the potential winner

2.As long as the potential winner is not the assassin, he can be assassinated, delaying his victory for at least another round?

I'm sure this has been covered previously, but I couldn't find anything on it. Thanks!
 
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brian
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fouber wrote:
When a player is one district away from winning the game, is it legal for the remaining players to conspire against him in the following fashion:

1. All the remaining players reveal their identity at the beginning of the new round, thereby deducing the identity of the potential winner

2.As long as the potential winner is not the assassin, he can be assassinated, delaying his victory for at least another round?

I'm sure this has been covered previously, but I couldn't find anything on it. Thanks!

You reveal at the time you are supposed to, not any sooner. You have to guess at the role he took if you want to assassinate him, possibly hitting one of the other players instead.

I find this way of playing very disturbing and would find a new group if it happened to me!
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fouber wrote:
When a player is one district away from winning the game, is it legal for the remaining players to conspire against him in the following fashion:

1. All the remaining players reveal their identity at the beginning of the new round, thereby deducing the identity of the potential winner

2.As long as the potential winner is not the assassin, he can be assassinated, delaying his victory for at least another round?

I'm sure this has been covered previously, but I couldn't find anything on it. Thanks!


Breathe slowly.

#1 is illegal in game.

It's ok to lose! Play fairly. That is where the fun is. You can conspire all you want, within the framework of the rules.
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Wade Nelson
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When one player is about to win, there are several things you can do. Like said already, you can't just all reveal who you are and take him down a notch.

But... If he's a run-away leader, the person next to him might want to draw the king so the leader draws last. Then, take the Assassin, Thief, and Warlord and Bishop.

The Assassin and Thief give you two chances of hitting the correct character. The thief is less effective unless the leader only has high-value district cards in his hand. The Warlord goes last, so he can destroy a district of the leader. It's important somebody else take the bishop, because if the leader takes the bishop you can't destroy any of his districts.

Another strategy is that if you have only high-value cards the leader couldn't possibly afford to build, then draw the Assassin, Thief, and Magician. Again the Assassin and Thief have the same role, and the Magician can swap hands with the leader.

There's lots tricky things you can do with the roles, but you can't reveal them until your turn
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Sean Foulon
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Thanks everyone for their quick input (save for markgravitygood's condescending dispatch). I have re-read the rules and while they say "When the name of your character card is called, you must reveal your character card, place it face up in front of you, and take your turn", they do not specifically preclude revealing your identity sooner. Perhaps this is assumed? In any case, our games will assume this from now on I think - the alternative would extend the game by a few rounds, and not in a good way.
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fouber wrote:
Thanks everyone for their quick input (save for markgravitygood's condescending dispatch). I have re-read the rules and while they say "When the name of your character card is called, you must reveal your character card, place it face up in front of you, and take your turn", they do not specifically preclude revealing your identity sooner. Perhaps this is assumed? In any case, our games will assume this from now on I think - the alternative would extend the game by a few rounds, and not in a good way.


If your read that rule as allowing you to reveal your cards sooner, you might as well take the entire pile of gold at any point in the game -- you can take 2 as one of your actions, but why not take it at some other point, and why not take more than 2?
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Tadeu Zubaran
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ColtsFan76 wrote:

I find this way of playing very disturbing and would find a new group if it happened to me!

indeed
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René van Bussel
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fouber wrote:
Thanks everyone for their quick input (save for markgravitygood's condescending dispatch). I have re-read the rules and while they say "When the name of your character card is called, you must reveal your character card, place it face up in front of you, and take your turn", they do not specifically preclude revealing your identity sooner. Perhaps this is assumed? In any case, our games will assume this from now on I think - the alternative would extend the game by a few rounds, and not in a good way.


If by "the alternative" you mean the normal game rules, then you are wrong. Leader bashing by normal rules means there's a chance he/she'll win anyway (you assasinate the wrong character) but if you play with roles in the open, this continues untill two players are almost winning.

Then there are two options: 1) someone flips a coin to determine the winner 2) the players conspire against one player, who will very likely never play with you again.

Another argument: "you must reveal" implies it's hidden before that.

And last: in this thread

faidutti wrote:
I'm a little surprised by people suggesting that showing one's card chosen will add interaction. It will remove all the bluffing element in the game, which makes the fun and interaction of it, and change it into a strategic game, which it isn't and doesn't want to be. So, the idea of the game is that you can say what you want - though it's not always fun - but never actually show a card or give a certain information. It would be like playing poker with open cards…
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Sean Foulon
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If your read that rule as allowing you to reveal your cards sooner, you might as well take the entire pile of gold at any point in the game -- you can take 2 as one of your actions, but why not take it at some other point, and why not take more than 2?

This occurred to me as well. In other words, if you allow any action that is not explicitly prohibited in the rules, the game will quickly disintegrate into chaos. On the other hand, consider Texas Hold'em: the rules state that all betting players must reveal their cards after the river card is flipped. Still, it is perfectly legal to reveal your cards earlier if you want. In poker, there is no motivation to reveal your cards early; but in this Citadel scenario, there is. Hence the question.
 
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Sean Foulon
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Thanks René, for the analysis and the Faidutti insight. By alternative, I mean allowing players to reveal their identities before their turn, and I agree, it would detract, not enhance the game.
 
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fouber wrote:
When a player is one district away from winning the game, is it legal for the remaining players to conspire against him...?

Fezzik puts hands on hips, thinking...

"My way is not very sportsmanlike..."
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David Me
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In poker, it's illegal to name your cards, isn't it? This seems similar.
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Jamie Jensen
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faidutti wrote:
you can say what you want - though it's not always fun

To me that seems to imply that people can verbally claim to be any role they want (despite the potential to be "not always fun") so long as they don't physically show the actual card to prove it...

Which is interesting because it runs contrary to the way I'd interpreted the following statement by him from three years earlier:

faidutti wrote:
As long as table talk is just table talk, and players who haven't played don't reveal the characters they have taken, it just depends on the players mood and the way the table use to play. However, the first question was about players revealing the characters they had chosen in a way that made more or less clear they could not be bluffing. This is not the way the game is supposed to work.

Furthermore, Citadels is a game that is supposed to be played fast, which means not too much tabel talk.

Previously I'd thought this older statement was saying verbal role-claims that are seemingly-unambiguously truthful were strictly disallowed, but re-evaluating it in light of this new statement I now see that the older one is indeed less than 100% clear and just like "the game is supposed to be played fast" expresses a preference and not an actual rule, so too could "this is not the way the game is supposed to work" be interpreted as simply a preference and not a rule.
 
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wadenels wrote:
When one player is about to win, there are several things you can do. Like said already, you can't just all reveal who you are and take him down a notch.

But... If he's a run-away leader, the person next to him might want to draw the king so the leader draws last. Then, take the Assassin, Thief, and Warlord and Bishop.

The Assassin and Thief give you two chances of hitting the correct character. The thief is less effective unless the leader only has high-value district cards in his hand. The Warlord goes last, so he can destroy a district of the leader. It's important somebody else take the bishop, because if the leader takes the bishop you can't destroy any of his districts.


I believe the problem with the Warlord is getting the district destroyed before the player builds - so if you miss with the Assassin, and the leading player can still build a small building, they lock in the end of the game and their 8 buildings immediately - the Warlord can't destroy a building when someone already has 8. At least, that's what I recall...

Sounds like even if you think revealing your cards ISN'T cheating, (I tend to) it's a degenerative way to play - this random reveal can backfire on players involved in it, causing a player who thinks they might still beat the leader to get knocked out of the running... for instance, the guy with the Architect is going to be able to build 2 buildings and win the game despite the runaway leader having 7 buildings already. In most games I've played with 6 or 7 players, there's rarely a moment in the game where one person is about to win and we can all tell - usually there's three or four people within a single turn of possibly winning at any given moment, and without knowing people's hands or strategies its hard to tell...
 
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Wade Nelson
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Blackfaer wrote:
wadenels wrote:
When one player is about to win, there are several things you can do. Like said already, you can't just all reveal who you are and take him down a notch.

But... If he's a run-away leader, the person next to him might want to draw the king so the leader draws last. Then, take the Assassin, Thief, and Warlord and Bishop.

The Assassin and Thief give you two chances of hitting the correct character. The thief is less effective unless the leader only has high-value district cards in his hand. The Warlord goes last, so he can destroy a district of the leader. It's important somebody else take the bishop, because if the leader takes the bishop you can't destroy any of his districts.


I believe the problem with the Warlord is getting the district destroyed before the player builds - so if you miss with the Assassin, and the leading player can still build a small building, they lock in the end of the game and their 8 buildings immediately - the Warlord can't destroy a building when someone already has 8. At least, that's what I recall...

Sounds like even if you think revealing your cards ISN'T cheating, (I tend to) it's a degenerative way to play - this random reveal can backfire on players involved in it, causing a player who thinks they might still beat the leader to get knocked out of the running... for instance, the guy with the Architect is going to be able to build 2 buildings and win the game despite the runaway leader having 7 buildings already. In most games I've played with 6 or 7 players, there's rarely a moment in the game where one person is about to win and we can all tell - usually there's three or four people within a single turn of possibly winning at any given moment, and without knowing people's hands or strategies its hard to tell...


Right, once the last district is built, none can of that player's can be destroyed. Also, I've had the same experience as you. In our group, the Warlord comes out fairly often during the game just to keep the playing field more level. Assassin and Thief are popular picks too.

Citadels isn't a city-building game, the person who only builds shouldn't really win very often.
 
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