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Subject: Question on Character Example Video rss

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Jason Burke
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Hey All,

I'm having a problem understanding how Brent Steeves is moving off of a clearing with a monster without hiding first. In this video (http://www.archive.org/download/BrentSteevesMagicRealmMagici...), around 3:00 minutes in, it appears as if he does this.

Anyone have thoughts? Is it a first edition vs. second/third edition issue?

Thanks,

Jason
 
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Nick Sula
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From the 1st edition rules, 26.1: Whenever a character is unhidden at the end of a phase of his turn all monsters in his Clearing Block him.

The operative word here is end. So, in Brent's example, the character moves off the clearing to an empty clearing. At the end of that movement phase, there are no monsters in his current Clearing to Block him.

Fairly sure it's the same in second/third edition...
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Jason Burke
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It must be a change between editions then. When I attempted to replicate that same move in RealmSpeak (latest version), it wouldn't let me (each time I tried, I was blocked before moving). The only thing that I can find in the 3rd edition rules is this on Pg. 31, under "Daily Sequence of Play"...

"4.2 When his Attention chit is selected, a character, hired leader,
or controlled monster becomes unhidden and he and his
followers do the phases he recorded. Whenever a character, hired
leader, or controlled monster becomes unhidden, his followers
also become unhidden."

If anyone can confirm, I would appreciate it.

Regards
 
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Matt Becker
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It's the same in all editions

3rd Edition
7.12 END OF PHASE - BLOCKING
7.12.2 Each time an individual ends a phase of his turn, blocking
can occur in his clearing.
a. If he is unhidden, he is automatically blocked by all of the
monsters in his clearing, and all of the individuals in his clearing
have the option to block him.
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Nick Sula
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It's true that you become unhidden at the start of your turn, but Blocking conditions are only checked at the end of each Phase. You should be able to Move out of the clearing, as long as it's the first phase you record.
Ah... the only exception I can think of is if you are trying to Move into a mountain clearing. That would require two Move phases to execute successfully, and you would be blocked by a monster in your clearing at the end of the first of those two Move phases -- You would not be able to complete two Move phases, and therefore not be able to leave the clearing before being blocked.
Maybe that's the situation?
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BrentS
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Nick and Matt are right here. This has never changed across editions…..and that video was played with 3rd Edition, even though it was an older version of Realmspeak (Realmspeak postdates 1st Edition by decades and was never programmed with those original rules).

Any unhidden character or hired leader who ends a phase in a clearing with a monster will be blocked by that monster, who also blocks all other unhidden characters and hired leaders in the clearing and is automatically blocked itself (which just stops it from prowling any more that day). This means that although you become unhidden at the beginning of your Daylight phases, as you quoted above, you have one grace phase to either move away to an empty, non-mountain clearing or Hide (after which you’ll be blocked if you fail).

I can think of two reasons you might have run into trouble.

Were you trying to move away from a monster to a mountain clearing? This will fail because it takes two phases to move into the mountain clearing and you will be blocked after the first phase as you haven’t made it out of the original clearing yet. In this situation you are obliged to make a successful Hide first phase before attempting the climb.

The other wrinkle is when multiple characters or hired leaders are involved. As noted above, monsters block not only the character who is ending the phase in their turn, but any other poor unhidden sap who happens to be in that clearing, even if they haven’t had their turn yet. This is actually a nasty ploy in multiplayer MR, where a devious Swordsman can take his turn first, end it unhidden with the unhidden White Knight, summon the Tremendous Troll for mutual blockage, then run from both in the Encounter Step (that’s how the Swordsman kills the White Knightdevil)…….but this will also potentially come into play if you’re playing solo using multiple characters or with hired leaders taking Independent turns (i.e. not Following).

Brent.

Edit...sorry, mountain case already posted by Nick while I was typing.
 
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Matt Becker
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goshublue wrote:
This is actually a nasty ploy in multiplayer MR, where a devious Swordsman can take his turn first, end it unhidden with the unhidden White Knight, summon the Tremendous Troll for mutual blockage, then run from both in the Encounter Step

That is an excellent maneuver for the Swordsman, but we should note that it doesn't work that way if the Tremendous Troll is already in the clearing with the White Knight.

7.12.3
b. Monsters that were already present in the clearing at the
start of the day do not block unhidden individuals in the clearing
at the end of another individual’s turn, even if they are prowling
that day. Example: The Dwarf starts the day unhidden in a
clearing with a Giant. The Swordsman moves first that day and
ends his turn by moving unhidden into the clearing. At the end of
the Swordsman’s last phase, the Giant blocks the Swordsman.
However, even if the Giant is prowling that day, it does not
block the Dwarf at the end of the Swordsman’s turn.
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BrentS
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mrb88 wrote:
goshublue wrote:
This is actually a nasty ploy in multiplayer MR, where a devious Swordsman can take his turn first, end it unhidden with the unhidden White Knight, summon the Tremendous Troll for mutual blockage, then run from both in the Encounter Step

That is an excellent maneuver for the Swordsman, but we should note that it doesn't work that way if the Tremendous Troll is already in the clearing with the White Knight.

7.12.3
b. Monsters that were already present in the clearing at the
start of the day do not block unhidden individuals in the clearing
at the end of another individual’s turn, even if they are prowling
that day. Example: The Dwarf starts the day unhidden in a
clearing with a Giant. The Swordsman moves first that day and
ends his turn by moving unhidden into the clearing. At the end of
the Swordsman’s last phase, the Giant blocks the Swordsman.
However, even if the Giant is prowling that day, it does not
block the Dwarf at the end of the Swordsman’s turn.


Ah yes, thanks Matt. I should have been clearer....this blocking of innocent bystanders only happens if the monster arrives in the clearing, either having been summoned from the Appearance chart or prowling from elsewhere in the tile.

It would be less common for a character to start the day unhidden in a clearing with a monster.....only reason I can think of is after an inconclusive combat the Evening before.....which can almost never happen with the White Knight/Tremendous Troll, unless the White Knight had missed a second round free swing from hiding .....otherwise in a standup fight one of those two must die and barring a lucky first round interception if he's still wielding the great sword, it's always Whitey . For the sake of example, though, of course all the Swordsman would have to do here is block Whitey himself.....same messy outcome devil

Brent.
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Steve McKnight
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goshublue wrote:
For the sake of example, though, of course all the Swordsman would have to do here is block Whitey himself.....same messy outcome devil

Brent.


I like the way your mind works....
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Jason Burke
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Thanks for all the responses guys. I believe that I was indeed trying to move in a mountain clearing. I will try it again in a forest clearing.

Thanks.
 
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Berserker in peace
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I'm not sure if it is only me. In realmspeak when a hired HQ is blocked by monsters in the clearing, his hiring character will be blocked automatically without even starting the character's turn.
A common scenario in my games is I and my hired HQ are both looting a discovered treasure site. My usual strategy is having both do H-S-S-S to allow more chances to fish treasures. Now, suppose the HQ takes his turn first. If he hides successfully, the character remains free to take his own turn starting with a "grace phase". However if the HQ is unhidden and blocked by some monster, the character's turn will be simply forfeited. This seems to contradict to what the rules say, which are aptly quoted by BrentS. I adopt this rule for blocking in my tabletop games, though. The rules are very clear and I don't think we all misinterpret it.

 
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BrentS
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ulfhethnar wrote:
I'm not sure if it is only me. In realmspeak when a hired HQ is blocked by monsters in the clearing, his hiring character will be blocked automatically without even starting the character's turn.
A common scenario in my games is I and my hired HQ are both looting a discovered treasure site. My usual strategy is having both do H-S-S-S to allow more chances to fish treasures. Now, suppose the HQ takes his turn first. If he hides successfully, the character remains free to take his own turn starting with a "grace phase". However if the HQ is unhidden and blocked by some monster, the character's turn will be simply forfeited. This seems to contradict to what the rules say, which are aptly quoted by BrentS. I adopt this rule for blocking in my tabletop games, though. The rules are very clear and I don't think we all misinterpret it.



Realmspeak seems to do this correctly.

All characters and hired leaders start the day unhidden. In your example above, assuming there is no monster already at the treasure site you are looting.....if your hired leader succeeds with his first phase Hide roll, there will be no blocking when the monster is summoned or prowls to the clearing at the end of his turn and your character will get that grace phase in is turn to attempt to Hide before looting. If however, your Hired Leader fails his first phase Hide roll, the summoned / prowling monster will block him when it arrives AND block every other unhidden character and Hired Leader in the clearing....that's when your character effectively forfeits his turn. Note this only happens when the monster is summoned or moves to the clearing.

The other case discussed above is when a monster is already in the clearing at the start of your Hired Leader's turn. If he fails his first turn Hide, then the monster only blocks him and everyone else present still gets that grace phase to act.

Hope that's clear.

Brent.
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Berserker in peace
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I suppose what you say is correct. Swift characters like Swordsman can adopt a surprise strategy by attracting prowling monsters to the clearing and leaving them behind to his opponents.
IMHO it makes more sense to me if an initial grace phase is always available to everyone. It seems counter-intuitive that prowling monsters moving to one's clearing always block all unhidden characters/HQs/controlled monsters, while monsters (prowling or not prowling) already in the clearing allow for a grace phase to all hidden and unhidden characters/HQs/controlled monsters that have not taken their turns. Shouldn't monsters already in the clearing be more ready to block than those arriving?
 
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Samuel Hinz
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I guess the reason for this is that the chances of starting a day in a clearing with a monster is pretty rare.

unless you managed to end a battle with 2 rounds of inactivity. then the next morning A) you'll be dead, B) the monster will be dead. or C) your down the road from having had run away.\
 
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