Recommend
5 
 Thumb up
 Hide
36 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Battlestar Galactica: The Board Game – Exodus Expansion» Forums » Play By Forum

Subject: Variant PBF rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Matt Vollick
Canada
St. Thomas
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Apparently playing variants of BSG and its expansions violate the original agreement Coltsfan76 had with FFG when he first set up PBF. While I think it's a bit of an overreaction I don't want to be partially responsible for PBF getting banned here on the geek.

It's been suggested that variant players and mods "appropriate" the Exodus PBF thread, setting up a shell around the main thread and should the banhammer come down on us perhaps we alone will bear the brunt.

Another reason for the move is that some players are interested in only playing the game with the written rules and that can make it frustrating for the player constantly getting invited to variant games and to variant moderators who use the waiting list and get a lot of rejections.

The waiting list is a good idea for normal BSG because each game (with specific modules) is essentially the same, but with all the different variants that are out there some players would only be interested in playing certain variants and not others. So what I suggest is we create a wiki of our own to list players who are interested in being asked to play variant games. Moderators can then look there for player names.

Have I missed anything?
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike
Canada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've been following the recent discussion on this topic in the Mods' thread with some interest.

To clarify, under your proposal, all games using the official FFG rules, whether Base Game, Pegasus, Exodus, or some combination thereof, would continue to use the BSG (Base Game) PBF Forum and the original waitlist wiki... Only those games involving significant modifications would move to the Exodus Forum and the new waitlist.

And this only applies to new games that start up... games already running will be unaffected.

Is that all correct?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Turczi
United Kingdom
London
England
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ninjamatic3000 wrote:
I've been following the recent discussion on this topic in the Mods' thread with some interest.

To clarify, under your proposal, all games using the official FFG rules, whether Base Game, Pegasus, Exodus, or some combination thereof, would continue to use the BSG (Base Game) PBF Forum and the original waitlist wiki... Only those games involving significant modifications would move to the Exodus Forum and the new waitlist.

And this only applies to new games that start up... games already running will be unaffected.

Is that all correct?


That was my understanding yes.
I'm looking forward to all the people compiling a list of used variants and being able to choose from them! mmmm tasty arrrh
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
brian
United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
ninjamatic3000 wrote:
I've been following the recent discussion on this topic in the Mods' thread with some interest.

To clarify, under your proposal, all games using the official FFG rules, whether Base Game, Pegasus, Exodus, or some combination thereof, would continue to use the BSG (Base Game) PBF Forum and the original waitlist wiki... Only those games involving significant modifications would move to the Exodus Forum and the new waitlist.

And this only applies to new games that start up... games already running will be unaffected.

Is that all correct?

Yes, that was my suggestion.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt Vollick
Canada
St. Thomas
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ninjamatic3000 wrote:
...games involving significant modifications would move to the Exodus Forum and the new waitlist.


Where is the line drawn? Even nerfing Cain or Tory is technically a violation of the original agreement. But I wouldn't really want people to be asked to play heavy variants all the time because they want to play with a nerfed Cain.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
brian
United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
Vollick1979 wrote:
ninjamatic3000 wrote:
...games involving significant modifications would move to the Exodus Forum and the new waitlist.


Where is the line drawn? Even nerfing Cain or Tory is technically a violation of the original agreement. But I wouldn't really want people to be asked to play heavy variants all the time because they want to play with a nerfed Cain.

I am not keen on nerfing them but if that is the only change, I think we can let those go. My concern was the heavier changes would bring about them looking into it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
SoCal
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Qs

1) Is a separate thread for variants just for appearances-sake? b/c it doesn't seem like it'd be difficult to filter out the variant-heavy games and delete them should the proverbial hammer come down on us

2) Will we/how will we identify the degrees of variants?
E.g.
--Mild could be like Cain's Blind Jump = draw 2nd Destination card instead.
--Moderate could be use a modified character sheet for Cain
--Heavy could be a new set of Treachery + other skill cards added to the standard decks in addition/instead of the standard base + expansions.

3) how do behavior limitations be affected? Examples include forbidding characters to choose Cain outright, or at least not as a start game character.

Another would be I'd like to mod a game where all cylons must reveal within 1 to 2 rounds, as an experiment to see if CFB = instant win for revealed cylons.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gerry Smit
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Three Four Major Distinctions jump out at me right there :

1) Mild Variations on existing cards
- 1 change max per card
a) on a few cards only (< 6 perhaps?)
b) on many cards
eg: Cain's Misjump is second destination card, not top card.

2) Major Variations on existing cards
- 2 or more changes on any 1 card
a) on a few only
b) on many cards
eg: Alternate "Lee Adama" with 3 different abilities.

3) NEW Variants
- new cards, boards, tokens, rules,
a) only a few
b) "many"
eg: New Characters, Kendra Shaw & Racetrack
eg: "Character Growth": post-sleeper phase characters may change one skill
eg: "Didn't sign the contract/wasn't renewed by RDM" - after each jump you may change character cards.
The rest of your hand, and your use or non-use of the OPG remains the same.
eg: "That's NOT me!" - When your ally token is drawn: reveal one "You are not a cylon" loyalty card
and discard the ally normally, otherwise leave your ally token in play.

4) Game-Play "Variants" (aka behavioral changes WITHIN rules as written)
- no changes to any cards, boards, tokens, rules as published
- within the rules (and FAQs), we will "choose to do x,y,z"
eg: All cylons are to reveal on turn 1 or 2 to test destructiveness of the CFB
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J Chav
United States
Taylorsville
Utah
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
One question is, should we move all variants from the list on the current waiting list to the new wiki?

Just the mention of them, not the actual game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
brian
United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
Danath wrote:
One question is, should we move all variants from the list on the current waiting list to the new wiki?

Just the mention of them, not the actual game.

No need to do that.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt Vollick
Canada
St. Thomas
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
What should the title of the wiki page be:

BSG_PBF_Variants

or do we have better suggestions?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J Chav
United States
Taylorsville
Utah
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I was going to suggest a la mode but apparently that doesn't mean quite what I thought it did... unless variants are ice cream.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt Vollick
Canada
St. Thomas
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You probably meant a la cart. I got a D in grade 8 and grade 9 French.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Vollick1979 wrote:
You probably meant a la cart. I got a D in grade 8 and grade 9 French.


Nope. I will now demand all of my BSG PBF games come served with ice cream on top!
5 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
brian
United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
Ripshawd wrote:
Vollick1979 wrote:
You probably meant a la cart. I got a D in grade 8 and grade 9 French.


Nope. I will now demand all of my BSG PBF games come served with ice cream on top!

I doubt that would work. You would spot the Cylons because of the fried ice cream....
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Looking for more players for the first game to be played on the Exodus PBF thread! Sign up now!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Turczi
United Kingdom
London
England
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm slightly interested if my rule changes in v6 are small enough to fit into any of Gerry's categories

Only if I could find a way to combine it with my rule changes in 214...

BTW, there is still a place for one player in v6.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Turczi
United Kingdom
London
England
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Anyone up for making a Variant PBF wiki page?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Loke
Canada
Richmond
British Columbia
flag msg tools
badge
BUT MY DREAMS THEY AREN'T AS EMPTY
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't want to start it because I'm still fairly new to PBF, but I'd be perfectly willing to help get it up and running. Currently it's a bit of a Wild West kind of thing in terms of getting players. We need to have some actual rules to make it fair for everyone.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Turczi
United Kingdom
London
England
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
schmloof wrote:
I don't want to start it because I'm still fairly new to PBF, but I'd be perfectly willing to help get it up and running. Currently it's a bit of a Wild West kind of thing in terms of getting players. We need to have some actual rules to make it fair for everyone.


I was thinking about having a list of most commonly used variants (Vollick's Treachery, Opera House skill cards, Colony, etc) maybe even with rules included.

Then have a table of players wanting to play, noting which do they prefer (and add any custom info like "I want to try new characters" or "I hate trauma tokens"), with noting players currently in play (only in the variant forum)

Then the third part would be a list of variant game list (like on the big pbf wiki) with links, victories, included variants, etc. We could even look up the games in the main forum BEFORE the separation, and link them too.


I'm happy to start it up, but between school, day job and running two games and playing two more I won't have time to maintain it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pieter
Netherlands
Maastricht
flag msg tools
Good intentions are no substitute for a good education.
badge
I take my fun very seriously.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Of course, the nice thing about a Wiki is that everybody maintains it.

That said, I think a decision should be made about overlap between the Variants and the Regular games, as far as parallel plays are concerned. Specifically: can a player be in both a variant game and a regular game at the same time? That would feel a bit unfair to me: waiting times are already pretty long, especially for newbies.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Turczi
United Kingdom
London
England
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm working on the draft of the VarWiki right now. Since right now there is no rule forbiding multiple games in variant, I haven't written any.
If the mod pool comes up with a different ruling, I obviously don't think anyone I've written is binding
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
brian
United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
Flyboy Connor wrote:
Of course, the nice thing about a Wiki is that everybody maintains it.

That said, I think a decision should be made about overlap between the Variants and the Regular games, as far as parallel plays are concerned. Specifically: can a player be in both a variant game and a regular game at the same time? That would feel a bit unfair to me: waiting times are already pretty long, especially for newbies.

As far as I am concerned, it is two separate game lines so no need to monitor both and say you can only be in one. It would be like coordinating between Arkham, Fury of Dracula, and this. I also suspect wait times will be shorter in the variant games meaning those interested will probably be in a game almost constantly. So that would further block their involvement in the regular games.

So don't link the two wait lists.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pieter
Netherlands
Maastricht
flag msg tools
Good intentions are no substitute for a good education.
badge
I take my fun very seriously.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
That's one way of looking at it. Another way is that a moderator who does a variant game is not modding a regular game. Which means the regular waiting list will get longer delays.

As a modder, I would like to know whether or not someone is playing in a variant game; in that case I would prefer not to invite him to a regular game. I have had players in my games in the past who were in two games simultaneously, and they were definitely less involved, and mixed up things regularly.

Therefore, I would at least suggest that a player who is in a variant game, indicates this on the waiting list for the regular games. I have absolutely no problems with someone being on both lists, but it seems common courtesy to me to indicate one's involvement in another game on the relevant list.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Turczi
United Kingdom
London
England
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Having to indicate on the original wait list that you're in a variant game is a good idea, I'll add it to the VarWiki.
Btw, it is starting to shape up, so here is the link!
http://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/BSG_PBF_Variant

(and the reason that mostly only my variants is on the list so far is not that I'm a self centered jerk, but that it takes longer time to research what other people did. I'm working my way through the games!)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.