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Subject: Tracking Cthulhu's Attack rss

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Lee Valentine
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Cthulhu's GOO attack doesn't reduce current Sanity or Stamina, it reduces MAXIMUM Sanity or Stamina. Presumably current values are not reduced unless they exceed the maximum. How are you tracking this? There is no mechanism that ships with the game to track the difference between the current value and the maximum. Are you giving each player dice? Game stones? This seems like a really clumsy mechanism.

It would have been better to have a rule that any attack on your maximum scores also depletes your current scores too (but you can subsequently heal). There's no such rule, and so it seems like each player needs a pair of dice (one for Stamina and one for Sanity).

For an example of this, my current Sanity is 1, but my maximum is 5. I could get my maximum reduced 4 times in a row and never reduce my current Sanity. Given that the effect can modify Sanity or Stamina on a per player basis, that's two variables to track per player.

Thoughts?

Lee
 
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Bill Foley
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Why not simply add tokens to put your Sanity/Stamina at its maximum when Cthulhu awakens? I think your current stats become irrelevant at that point.

Basically, Cthulhu gets 6 attacks on every player before they all die on the 7th (at the same time).
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Lee Valentine
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While you don't draw Mythos cards any longer after the GOO attacks, there are Adventures which game text that reduces Sanity at every midnight. If those are still in play, then presumably they would still affect your current values. If none of those are in play, however, then your idea is a pretty good one.

Lee
 
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Bill Foley
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Admittedly I have yet to play the game, but I'm pretty sure once the GOO wakes up, the Adventure card penalties also become irrelevant- you no longer do anything with the Adventures once that happens.

That is an interesting question, though- if those Adventure penalties continue to have an effect, it would change things. In the spirit of 'the game hates you', I'd probably play it that the penalties now apply to your maximums, as they wouldn't really have an effect otherwise.
 
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Lee Valentine
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I have played. You aren't allowed to adventure after the GOO wakes up, but that's missing the point. The "At Midnight" effects on those cards are still in play. At midnight, all at midnight cards in play affect you typically.

For example, even if the GOO weren't awake and you were all sitting in the entrance you'd still get hammered by "At Midnight" effects on all adventures in play. Same thing is presumably true when the GOO wakes up. Certainly I could not find a rule to the contrary about this after a quick look in the rulebook.

Lee
 
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Bill Foley
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I see your point- if you have very low sanity and the effect continues, you might die very quickly if the penalty is still applied to your current sanity. For simplicity's sake, I think I would play it that the effect hits your maximum- you're still dying quicker, but probably not as fast as if you applied it to your current sanity (and minus the awkwardness of tracking 2 sets of stats).
 
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Don Kim
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I think when this comes up in my games I'm just going to treat it as pure damage to Sanity and Stamina. Like what others have said, the odds are against you winning anyway even if you have the power to heal.
 
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Jani Pietikäinen
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xfoley8 wrote:
Basically, Cthulhu gets 6 attacks on every player before they all die on the 7th (at the same time).


How come? I always thought that Cthulhu attacks everyone 8 times, then devouring everyone on the 9th attack.
Let's say my investigator has 6 max stamina and 4 max sanity. First 5 midnights would reduce my max stamina to 1 (6-5), then next 3 would do the same for my sanity (4-3). After this there is no way to avoid being devoured.
 
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Lee Valentine
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Keep in mind that Cthulhu, by default, reduces everyone's Stamina and Sanity by 1, even before considering attacks. So, if you are 5/5, you are 4/4. Now, you can withstand only 7 attacks before dying. 6 attacks takes you from 4/4 to 1/1, and the next one kills you. So you go down after 7 attacks at most. However, as I noted, other effects may kill you outright by reducing your current Sanity (as opposed to just your maximum Sanity).

Lee
 
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Jani Pietikäinen
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Ah yes, I forgot about Cthulhu's "Dreams of Madness"
 
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Gareth Roberts
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Haven't got elder sign yet (Hurry the heck up mailman) but...

In Arkham Horror to achieve this effect I:

Give each player tokens= to their max and put them on the investigator sheet.

When they lose a health or stamina slide a token off the sheet but leave it next to the sheet.

When you gain a health or stamina slide one of the tokens to the side of the sheet back on.

When fighting Cthulu simply discard the tokens that are off the sheet first then discard the tokens that are on the sheet

If your max ever goes up or down mid game add a token off sheet or return a token to the box.

Does this work in Elder Sign?



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Bill Foley
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ilovedawkins wrote:
Haven't got elder sign yet (Hurry the heck up mailman) but...

In Arkham Horror to achieve this effect I:

Give each player tokens= to their max and put them on the investigator sheet.

When they lose a health or stamina slide a token off the sheet but leave it next to the sheet.

When you gain a health or stamina slide one of the tokens to the side of the sheet back on.

When fighting Cthulu simply discard the tokens that are off the sheet first then discard the tokens that are on the sheet

If your max ever goes up or down mid game add a token off sheet or return a token to the box.

Does this work in Elder Sign?


The difference in Elder Sign is that there are Adventure cards with ongoing effects 'at midnight' (including loss of sanity, apparently), and there is no clarification in the rules about whether the effects of these cards stay in play once the GOO wakes up. The question becomes does the sanity loss from the adventure card continue when battling the GOO, and does it hit your 'current' sanity, or your maximum sanity? To use your solution in a way that addresses the OP's question, you would actually discard the sanity tokens on the sheet first for the adventure card loss, and you would die as soon as those tokens were depleted.

Personally, I doubt the designers' intention was to force players to track their sanity in 2 different ways in the final battle- I think either the adventure card midnight effect no longer applies once you battle the GOO (midnight only applies to the GOO's attack at that point), or you should apply the loss only to your maximum and no longer track the current. I'd probably play it that the adventure card has no effect anymore (which I think is probably the creator's intention), and if it was too easy, try the continuing loss on the maximum.

It's all personal preference at this point, until an FAQ addresses the issue.
 
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Jake Waltier
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ilovedawkins wrote:
Does this work in Elder Sign?

It does. In fact, I used that method when I kicked Cthulhu's ass last night.
 
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Tiger Wiccan
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xfoley8 wrote:
ilovedawkins wrote:
Haven't got elder sign yet (Hurry the heck up mailman) but...

In Arkham Horror to achieve this effect I:

Give each player tokens= to their max and put them on the investigator sheet.

When they lose a health or stamina slide a token off the sheet but leave it next to the sheet.

When you gain a health or stamina slide one of the tokens to the side of the sheet back on.

When fighting Cthulu simply discard the tokens that are off the sheet first then discard the tokens that are on the sheet

If your max ever goes up or down mid game add a token off sheet or return a token to the box.

Does this work in Elder Sign?


The difference in Elder Sign is that there are Adventure cards with ongoing effects 'at midnight' (including loss of sanity, apparently), and there is no clarification in the rules about whether the effects of these cards stay in play once the GOO wakes up. The question becomes does the sanity loss from the adventure card continue when battling the GOO, and does it hit your 'current' sanity, or your maximum sanity? To use your solution in a way that addresses the OP's question, you would actually discard the sanity tokens on the sheet first for the adventure card loss, and you would die as soon as those tokens were depleted.

Personally, I doubt the designers' intention was to force players to track their sanity in 2 different ways in the final battle- I think either the adventure card midnight effect no longer applies once you battle the GOO (midnight only applies to the GOO's attack at that point), or you should apply the loss only to your maximum and no longer track the current. I'd probably play it that the adventure card has no effect anymore (which I think is probably the creator's intention), and if it was too easy, try the continuing loss on the maximum.

It's all personal preference at this point, until an FAQ addresses the issue.


I personally think that everything else that is going on once the GOO awakens gets discarded and you only have your investigator(s) and whatever their current stats/items/trophies/clue tokens are and the GOO itself involved in the final battle.

But you are right, we need an official ruling on that.
 
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Bill Foley
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tigerwiccan wrote:

I personally think that everything else that is going on once the GOO awakens gets discarded and you only have your investigator(s) and whatever their current stats/items/trophies/clue tokens are and the GOO itself involved in the final battle.

But you are right, we need an official ruling on that.


Well, I would argue that if there are dice locked on an adventure card when the GOO wakes up, they should remain locked in the final battle- you should have unlocked those dice if the GOO was getting peckish!

Cthulhu is an exception to the 'current' stats, since you battle him with your maximums.
 
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Tiger Wiccan
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xfoley8 wrote:
tigerwiccan wrote:

I personally think that everything else that is going on once the GOO awakens gets discarded and you only have your investigator(s) and whatever their current stats/items/trophies/clue tokens are and the GOO itself involved in the final battle.

But you are right, we need an official ruling on that.


Well, I would argue that if there are dice locked on an adventure card when the GOO wakes up, they should remain locked in the final battle- you should have unlocked those dice if the GOO was getting peckish!

Cthulhu is an exception to the 'current' stats, since you battle him with your maximums.


Wouldn't those be your "current maximum stats" then?
 
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Bill Foley
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tigerwiccan wrote:
Wouldn't those be your "current maximum stats" then?


Works for me!
 
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Lee Valentine
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I exchanged emails with Richard Launius. He said that his answer was unofficial AND he didn't know if his co-designer would agree with him, but he said that effects from adventure cards ceased after the GOO wakes up. So, that's one way to play, which makes tracking easier, but it concerns me that he doesn't know how his co-designer plays the game.

If adventure cease to impact the game then it would then raise questions about locked dice and adventure cards, etc. It makes little sense that "At Midnight" effects on adventure cards cease, but dice locking continues. This is a big gap in the rulebook.

Launius said I should contact FFG for the "official" answer. Kudos to him for answering so quickly. Very nice guy. Very attentive.

Lee
 
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Dane Barrett
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The left hand doesn't know what the right is doing. That does explain alot.
 
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Lee Valentine
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Richard Launius, again unofficially, says that locked dice stay locked when the GOO awakens, but "at midnight" effects turn off.

Lee
 
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