Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
10 Posts

Saboteur 2 (expansion-only editions)» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Not enough ways to figure out blue/green teams rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
G S
United States
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I have a huge problem with Saboteur 2, in that it feels pretty much pointless to have blue/green teams. The only way to find out who is who is if people play a door, but a door card is only useful if a player has their own color door in their hand - they would never play a door of another color. Furthermore, due to ladder cards, often times the doors become moot anyways, since both teams are able to bypass the doors by going through a ladder built near the goal cards.

It feels like the chances of a player drawing a door card of their own color is fairly low, and unless they play that door card early, there is not enough time for the teams to get sorted out and start playing against each other.

In all the games that we played, the doors never played a role, and in every game, no one found out who their team members were until after the game was over.

So far, we have had a horrible experience with Saboteur 2. I really want to use it and like it, but right now everyone seems to prefer sticking with only Saboteur 1 and no teams.

What can be done in order to help make the battle between the blue and green teams an actual part of the game, rather than feeling like just a random luck of the draw for who wins at the end?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Short
United States
Tucson
Arizona
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You make a very good point. I haven't played enough to come to my own conclusion, but I have feared this possibility.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
nikolaos Kamoudis
Greece
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
they are always the card that change the role card and the card that you swap cards if you believe someone hold a color door.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Short
United States
Tucson
Arizona
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
kounabi22 wrote:
they are always the card that change the role card and the card that you swap cards if you believe someone hold a color door.


Your solutions are for how to avoid the situation... the OP is looking for how to fix the situation.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Frederic Moyersoen
Belgium
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The purpose of the doors is to make it possible to find out who is in your team or not.
The faster a door card is played in a round, the more time you have to find it out.
When someone plays a card behind a door card, you can imagine that he is either belonging to that team, either the boss or profiteer.
When someone plays a card at another location, you can imagine that he is belonging to the other team.

Of course, with many players it's difficult to memorise all played cards. On the other hand, the chance is also bigger that your team is more present, which increases your winning possibilities.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pieter
Netherlands
Maastricht
flag msg tools
Good intentions are no substitute for a good education.
badge
I take my fun very seriously.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It seems the team colors do not matter, but they do. Read the rules carefully!

If a road is created from the starting point to the gold, which is not blocking blue or green, then if the final connection is made by someone of the blue team, then the blue team wins, but the green team does not. And vice versa. This means that if you are a dwarf of the blue team, and you do not know who your comrades are (which you probably do not), then you should feel compelled to make the final connection yourself.

The good thing about this is that most players do not want the game to end on anybody else's turn, so they avoid setting the game up for a final connection by the next player.
- Members of the blue team want to make the final connection themselves, because that way they can ensure their team wins.
- Members of the green team want to make the final connection for the same reason.
- Saboteurs, of course, avoid connecting the gold at all.
- Geologist wants the game to last long, to be able to play all crystals.
- Chief wants to block the way for both the blue and the green team, and then make the final connection, so that he wins alone.
- Profiteer wants either one saboteur to win, or the Chief to win.

I like the new roles. While the deck of cards is much bigger, the Saboteurs have a decent chance of winning as long as everybody tries to make sure their own team wins.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
G S
United States
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I think the problem is that so far, maybe just because we were unlucky, most of the blue doors were held by the green team, and most of the green doors were held by the blue team. Because of this, nobody played any doors, since there is no reason to play a door of the opposite color.

There was only one time that a blue door was played by a blue team member, but it was played as the card that completed the path to the gold, so there was no chance to react to someone playing that card.

I think we just need to play more - I think we just have been very unlucky with the way those cards have been dealt to the wrong people.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Cheng
Taiwan
Taipei City
n/a
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
okkay wrote:
I think the problem is that so far, maybe just because we were unlucky, most of the blue doors were held by the green team, and most of the green doors were held by the blue team. Because of this, nobody played any doors, since there is no reason to play a door of the opposite color.

There was only one time that a blue door was played by a blue team member, but it was played as the card that completed the path to the gold, so there was no chance to react to someone playing that card.

I think we just need to play more - I think we just have been very unlucky with the way those cards have been dealt to the wrong people.


how about...

Place the green door and blue door cards into separate decks (3 blues and 3 greens). Players can discards, facedown, three cards to put one of the green or blue cards into their hands.

just come up with this on the top of my head, no play test.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Lai
United States
Sunnyvale
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Perhaps it's just been my experience, but I find that it can be in the saboteurs or geologists' best interest to place a door to get the miner teams to fight amongst each other, allowing for either less cooperation or just more time to lay down more crystals. As for the boss, it's sometimes in his interest to also lay down doors of opposite colors to block both teams (and thus get more gold for himself at the end).

To be honest, though, Saboteur 2 strikes me as a lot more of a "each person for him/herself" game, while Saboteur 1 is more along the lines of a classic traitor co-op. They're both fun, but they scratch different itches.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
pyrostorm 010
msg tools
I am also encountering this problem. In the games that I've played so far, it just seemed that the good dwarfs were digging towards the gold and praying that the person who played the last card was on their side. I'm still thinking of a way to fix this (unless that really isn't necessary).

Also, because teams aren't strictly good vs bad anymore, hardly anyone ever uses the broken tool cards anymore.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.