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Subject: Recommendation Request: 2-on-2 longer (20-60 hour) games rss

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Burster of Bubbles, Destroyer of Dreams.
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My game of The Battle for Normandy ended yesterday evening with a German capitulation after a key section of the line was lost to the Americans.

I'm entertaining suggestions for a 2-sided replacement wargame. We have a 4x8 main table, a 4x4 card table, and possibly a 3x6 table to use. We're looking for something we can set up and play on successive Wednesday nights from now until it's over. (We have a 4-hour filler picked for next week, at which time we'll agree on the next game and acquire a copy if necessary.)

Our level of experience ranges from the deep end to the shallow end (me! Normandy was my first wargame.). We did 1.5 rounds of Normandy with the most experienced (Americans) and the least experienced (Commonwealth) teamed against the 2 in the middle (Eastern and Western Germans). (The restart was due to a venue change.)

Someone suggested Successors but a true 4p game often devolves into a dance of getting your opponents to fight each other. That can be a fine thing, but not here.

A plus for Ancient Greece, a mild minus for Nazis.

a geekbuddy wrote:
Maybe check out Bastogne: Screaming Eagles under Siege or Burma? I've seen both played and both are awesome.


Morganza wrote:
another geekbuddy wrote:
I was impressed by my plays of Europe Engulfed.


Block wargames aren't very well suited to a setup where players come and go for multiple weeks, though I suppose turning all the blocks face-down at the end of each play session might work. (We did discuss that very point.)



Ideally this would be a game which can't be swung by a single day of improbably good die-rolling.

Now, there's something inherently draining about playing the Germans in a reasonably historical WWII game -- you know you're going to lose, its just a matter of how long you can drag it out. I think we'd welcome a game where the outcome is based on a clear victory that could go to either side.
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Joel Langenfeld
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Re: Recommendation Request: 2-on-2 longer games
Pick up (cheaply) off e-bay Victory in the Pacific and War at Sea (second edition). That is likely to be under $30 for the pair, plus shipping.

Then find Richard Hamblens Victory at Sea variant, as published in •The GENERAL Vol.14,No.4 (I can scan if you need it).

One player will be the Japanese
One the British
One the German/Italian
and the Last the Americans.

The sides are mostly autonomous, but there are cross-over rules for interaction. Besides the normal kibitzing (Uhm, Admiralty deliberations), that is.
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Roger Hobden
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Re: Recommendation Request: 2-on-2 longer games
In less then 30 seconds, I am sure that someone will recommend Case Blue (never played, myself).

Don't listen to them ... arrrh
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Bill Lawson
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Re: Recommendation Request: 2-on-2 longer games
Case Blue
This is not a joke! You really should play it. It sounded intimidating to me until I played it and bought a copy. Great game, the Jewel of my collection!
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M C
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Re: Recommendation Request: 2-on-2 longer games
Morganza wrote:

Now, there's something inherently draining about playing the Germans in a reasonably historical WWII game -- you know you're going to lose, its just a matter of how long you can drag it out. I think we'd welcome a game where the outcome is based on a clear victory that could go to either side.


Thats not always true. WWII: The Struggle for Europe and Asia has a set of victory conditions for the Axis that basically make the Allied rush against the clock to get VP provinces. Every turn after a certain point if the Axis controls x number of vps they win.

I guess you still face the problem of the Axis slowly losing, struggling to prolong the game.

How about something ahistorical? You don't specifically mention that it has to be historical in your post. So I am going to recommend Space Empires: 4X
 
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Burster of Bubbles, Destroyer of Dreams.
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Re: Recommendation Request: 2-on-2 longer games
sirius23 wrote:
How about something ahistorical? You don't specifically mention that it has to be historical in your post. So I am going to recommend Space Empires: 4X


That was suggested as a filler, yes. It has the problem of allowing you to win by waiting for your opponents to weaken each other, though that's not an issue when you play in 2 teams of 2.

I've only played once but would certainly be willing to give it another go.
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Burster of Bubbles, Destroyer of Dreams.
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Re: Recommendation Request: 2-on-2 longer games
... there's something mind-bending about a group in which Dominant Species and Space Empires: 4X are suggested as fillers...
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Eugene
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Re: Recommendation Request: 2-on-2 longer games
Fellow 18xx-er JC now considers Age of Steam to be mere "heavy filler", you know.
 
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Neil Henning
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Re: Recommendation Request: 2-on-2 longer games
The most fun multi-player war games I have played are:
Sword of Rome- This one is everyone for themselves but there are times when everyone has to go after the leader.

Here I Stand- An excellent game of negotiations,alliances and backstabbing. Different factions should work together but that can change as the game progress's. Really best with 5 though.

The Napoleonic Wars (Second Edition)-Another neat game that plays well with four.

Successors (third edition)- Probably one of my favorites as each game is entirely different due to the arbitrary picking of generals during set up. I never felt it was three against one while I was playing. This is primarily a game of tactics. You try not to be the leader until you are sure you are in a powerful enough position that you think you can win that turn. Then you make your move. In the meantime you try and keep your opponents in check. HIGHLY RECOMMEND. There is a lot of depth to this game and the more you play it the more you will enjoy all the subtleties.
 
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Michael
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Re: Recommendation Request: 2-on-2 longer games
Vikingwarrior wrote:


Here I Stand- An excellent game of negotiations,alliances and backstabbing. Different factions should work together but that can change as the game progress's. Really best with 5 though.


Minor correction needed here. HIS plays best with five not six player. With five the England/Prot player has a significant advantage.
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Don Botkin
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Depending on whether you like naval warfare games, I would recommend Victory Games Pacific War or one of their Fleet series games. Back when I lived in Denver during the late 80's and was unemployed for almost two months, a friend and I set up and played the campaign game of 7th Fleet and had a blast. We were already well versed with the game from playing several smaller scenarios - something I would highly recommend prior to tackling a Fleet series campaign game (except for Sixth Fleet which would be the easiest intro to the series).

Another possibility would be to play Europe Engulfed and Asia Engulfed linked together as a campaign (AE includes the rules to play them linked) but that would likely be on the short side of the 20 - 60 hour timeframe.
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Eric Brosius
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My favorite 18xx game for six players is two games of 1846 with three players each.
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I think the OCS series is one recommendation you should consider. However, the game I'd suggest starting with is Baltic Gap. It's more manageable (44" x 34" map area) and features both swirling mobile battles in the south and set-piece attacks on a defensive line in the north. As a plus, it's still in print, and the designer (John Kisner) provides excellent support on BGG.
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David Hughes
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I'd recommend The Devil's Cauldron: The Battles for Arnhem and Nijmegen, if you have access to a copy. It will fit in your space, and four is the perfect number for the campaign. If it goes the distance, you will finish it in around 50 hours, give or take.

Worth the effort. We played it 2 handed, and it was just a little bit too much work; 4 handed would be perfect, I think. In complexity terms, it is the same order of magnitude as The Battle for Normandy. Both are relatively easy to play, given the scale.
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I have played The Devil's Cauldron 4-player and it works well. Basically it devolves into two games going on at the same time.

The game system is awesome, too! However, it's a market-garden game, and it is really hard for the allies to win. kind of takes the wind out of it.

Bastogne: Screaming Eagles at Seige as a 4 player game? nah.
 
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