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Subject: Some Challenges rss

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Mike T
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Here are some fun challenges from the play-agricola.com forums:


1. Straw-Thatched Roof is very powerful, but it's hard to get it out quickly. Can you get it into play and build a room in the first Stage? EGIK cards allowed, but no Educator shenanigans, and you can't assume that wood accumulates. There are a lot of ways to solve this, so I'll award geekgold for elegant or innovative solutions.

2. Similar challenge, but with a greater turn restriction: can you play Sleeping Corner with your 5th action, using only EIK, with Traveling Salesman, Businessman and Merchant banned?

3. Using EGIK, how many occupations can you play in Round 1 of a 4-player game? Academic counts for 2, so the theoretical maximum is 8. Can you play all 8?

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Ben Bateson
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OK, I can do Straw-thatched roof if I can use Businessman and the 2W space is allowed to accumulate, but I'm guessing you wanted something more elegant

1) Occupation -> Field Watchman
Take 1 Grain + Plough

2) Occupation -> Businessman
Take 1 Grain + Plough

3) Take 6 Wood
Take 1 Grain + Plough

4) Sow 3 Grain
Starting Player -> Straw Thatched Roof -> Wooden Hut Extension

Harvest) Eat 2 raw grain

A similar thing is doable with the Travelling Salesman, of course.
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Mike T
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Not bad, Ben, but according to the latest Compendium you can't discount the cost of Wooden Hut Extension with Room discounters.

Also, no wood accumulation!
 
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Ben Bateson
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I knew it wouldn't be that easy.
 
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Chris Deotte
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smcmike wrote:

3. Using EGIK, how many occupations can you play in Round 1 of a 4-player game? Academic counts for 2, so the theoretical maximum is 8. Can you play all 8?

I can play 6 by the end of Round 1.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Lets call the 4 players A,B,C,D which also indicates their turn order. I am player B.

===Round 1===
A: RSF
B: Occ - Educator
C: Occ - Puppeteer
--> B: Perpetual Student
D: Traveling Players
--> C: Fisherman's Apprentice
--> B: Reeve +4 Wood
A: 3 Wood
B: SP - Writing Desk
C: 2 Wood
D: Fishing
--> C: Early Riser
--> B: Pilgrim +2 Food
--> B: Writing Desk --> Academic
===========

===Round 2===
A: Occ - Job Seeker
--> B: Patron
--> B: Writing Desk --> G2x Professor
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Chris Deotte
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After posting my solution, someone showed me that i used 1 of my cards wrong (Writing Desk). Also someone showed me that you can actually play all 8 Occupations in the first Round. I challenge someone to find that solution.
 
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Chris F.
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smcmike wrote:
1. Straw-Thatched Roof is very powerful, but it's hard to get it out quickly. Can you get it into play and build a room in the first Stage? EGIK cards allowed, but no Educator shenanigans, and you can't assume that wood accumulates. There are a lot of ways to solve this, so I'll award geekgold for elegant or innovative solutions.

2. Similar challenge, but with a greater turn restriction: can you play Sleeping Corner with your 5th action, using only EIK, with Traveling Salesman, Businessman and Merchant banned?
Are these two meant to be solo challenges? With the 2w and no starting food, etc?
 
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Mike T
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No, these are not solo challenges. I'm not sure if either is solvable without access to 3+ and/or 4+ cards. If you find a (game 1) solo solution, though, that's definitely worth bonus points!
 
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Chris F.
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This solution isn't what I'd call elegant, but it works:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Start with:
5p game
I'm not SP (so, 3f)
4 brain-dead opponents

1.1 Occ: Traveling Salesman
1.2 MIMI: Acreage + Hired Helpers (-1f)
Supply: 2f

2.1 Occ: Seed Seller (-1f +1g)
2.2 MIMI: Building Materials (+1w) + Duck Pond
Supply: 1f/1g/1w

(+1f)
3.1 Occ: Field Watchman (-1f)
3.2 4w
Supply: 1f/1g/5w

(+1f)
4.1 Grain (+2g +1fi)
4.2 MIMI: Itinerant Laborers (-1f): Sow (-3g +3gf) + Straw-thatched Roof
4.3 Build Room: (-5w +1wr)
Feeding: -1f -3g
Supply: none

EDIT: Hidden like everyone else's.
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Mike T
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Nice Chris. There are a bunch of solutions over at play-agricola.com, but this one is new (though it obviously shares some elements with others).

You could replace Itinerant Laborers with Turnip Field.
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Lukas E.
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@Chris:

Understudy first instead of Fisherman's Apprentice and letting "C" play Fisherman's as second action would give you one more.
 
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Mike T
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lueg wrote:
@Chris:

Understudy first instead of Fisherman's Apprentice and letting "C" play Fisherman's as second action would give you one more.


Understudy is helpful. The big problem with Chris's solution is that Writing Desk only works on action spaces, not with edu.
 
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Chris Deotte
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lueg wrote:
@Chris:

Understudy first instead of Fisherman's Apprentice and letting "C" play Fisherman's as second action would give you one more.

Thanks Lukas. If Writing Desk worked like i thought it did, then your suggestion would let me play all 8. I would play Patron as 1 of my new ones to help with Food.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
===Round 1===
A: RSF
B: Occ - Educator [1]
C: Occ - Puppeteer
--> B: Perpetual Student [2]
D: Traveling Players
--> C: Understudy
--> B: Reeve +4 Wood [3]
A: 3 Wood
B: SP - Writing Desk
C: Occ - Fisherman's Apprentice
--> B: Pilgrim +2 Food [4]
--> B: Writing Desk --> Patron [5]
D: Fishing
--> C: Early Riser
--> B: Job Seeker [6]
--> B: Writing Desk --> Academic [7,8]
===========
 
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Mike T
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Actually, Chris, c runs out of food in the scenario you just posted.
 
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Mike W
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I don't play with the G deck, so I'll have to leave challenges 1 and 3 alone. I did make some tries at #1 with EIK only, but I would always end up one or two actions or food short.

For #2, I came up with two solutions, but neither are very elegant, relying on some luck and/or odd opponent play. I am Player B in each example.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Solution 1: The Man Who Loved (the Market Crier) Too Much
Assumptions: Round 1 = MIMI, Round 2 = Sow/Bake, Opponent A has devised a strategy that depends on early and often use of the Market Crier. 3P game (or 4P, 5P)

Round 1 - MIMI
A: Occ, Market Crier
B: Occ, Wood Carver or Wood Collector (either will work)
C: any but MIMI or Grain
A: Grain (+1G to B and C)
B: MIMI Acreage
C: any

Round 2 - Sow/Bake
A: Grain (+1G to B and C)
B: Sow 2xG on Acreage
C: any but MIMI/SPMI
A: any but MIMI/SPMI
B: MIMI or SPMI Sleeping Corner

Solution 2: Shenanigans! Of Both Educator and Perpetual Student Kind
Assumptions: 4P game, Round order does not matter but I might need to get lucky with the Perpetual Student random draws...

Round 1
A: any but Occ or SPMI
B: Occ, Educator
C: Occ... I play Perpetual Student
D: any but SPMI
A: any but SPMI
B: SPMI Acreage
C,D: any

Round 2
B: Grain
C: Occ... I play Seed Seller (+1G)
D: Occ... I play Wood Carver or Wood Collector (either will work)
A: any but SPMI
B: SPMI Turnip Field and Sow 2xG on Acreage
C,D,A: any

Round 3
B: SPMI Sleeping Corner
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Mike T
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Nice.

Your first solution is very similar to the one I came up with, though with mine the Sleeping Corner player doesn't play any occs at all.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
If one opponent plays and uses Market Crier twice, and another plays Harrow, you get the same result.


There is a much more elegant solution though, one which does not rely on help from opponents.
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Mike W
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I found a solution to Challenge #1 using only EIK cards. But once again, it does need help from the other players. 4P game and the only Round Card requirement is that Sow/Bake has to come out before Round 4.


Spoiler (click to reveal)
Round 1
A: 3W
B: Occ, Church Warden +4W
C: 2W
D: any but SPMI or Occ
A: SPMI, Harrow
B: Occ, Businessman -1f
C, D: any

Round 2
A: 3W
B: SPMI, Grain Cart and Punner -3W
C: Plow using A's Harrow (B Punner Plows 1 Field)
D: 2W
A: Occ, Field Warden
B: Grain +3G with Grain Cart
C, D: any

Round 3 - Sow/Bake
B: Occ, Village Elder +4W -1f
C: 3W
D: Plow using A's Harrow (B Punner Plows 2nd Field)
A: Plow (Field Warden) using Harrow (B Punner Plows 3rd Field)
B: Sow 3x G Fields
C, D, A: any

Round 4
B: SPMI, Straw Thatched Roof
C, D, A: any but Build Rooms
B: Build 1 Wood Room -5W



I still have not found the solution to #2 without help from the other players. Found several ways to do it in 6 actions but can't close the gap. I'm looking forward to seeing that.
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James R
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My solutions to 1 & 2, my actions in bold other in italics

1

take 3 wood,
someone else plays market crier
plow
gain a grain from market crier

take another 3 wood
gain a grain from market crier
plow

plow
gain a grain from market crier
sow/bake

get out straw-thatched roof
build room

for 2 I'd replace the 3 wood grab in the second stage with sow/bake and then get out sleeping corner as a fifth action.

Not in a lot of detail, and I'm assuming sow/bake comes out by the second or third round. If it doesn't, isn't there an occupation that immediately gives you a sow action? Something like receive a vegetable which you can immediately sow, or is that limited to just that vegetable?

For challenge 3 I don't have the G-Deck (though that's something I'm hoping to remedy soon ) so not sure how that can be done.
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Mike T
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Nice James, yes, Market Crier makes both 1 & 2 relatively simple, if you want to play them simply. Challenge 2, at least, can be done within EIK and without Market Crier.

I think the best you can do for Challenge 3 with just EIK is 5 occupations.
 
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James R
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OK, new method for sleeping corner without the market crier, I am player d:

Round 1

a - occupation, wood distributor (gain 2 wood, can distribute the 3 wood space)
b - occupation, corn profiteer (can convert grain to 3 food at any time but other players can buy it off you for 2 food)
c - sits in the corner staying well away from the 3wood spot
d (me) - day labour
a - minor / major + harrow
b - take grain, attempt to eat it but have it bought out from under their nose by d
c - starting player
d - plows two fields courtesy of the harrow

d now has 1 grain, 1 food and 2 fields

Round 2

a distributes the wood everywhere (reed, clay and fish)

c - feeling pretty good, takes 2 reed and 2 wood
d - fish for 2 food and 2 wood
a - does whatever he feels like
b - takes another grain, once again tries to eat it, only to have it bought out by d
c - definitely doesn't take sow/bake
d - definitely does take take sow/bake
a - twiddles thumbs
b - twiddles thumbs too

Round 3

c - does not take minor / major and starting player in one move
d - takes one of minor / major or starting and plays the sleeping corner



I know, I know, I let the wood build up, but you kind of specified that for challenge 1 rather than 2.

Alternative method I just thought of without letting wood build up,
- a plays the wood buyer rather than wood distributor in round 1
- c takes 2 wood spot and plays the harrow with starting player in round 1
- in round 2 I would take 3 wood, have one bought by player a and have enough food to buy the grain from player b.

Also I know I could just take a grain rather than day labour in the first round... as geoff sometimes says, if someone else plays the card, use the card.

James
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Mike T
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Nice. Of course, all of that is essentially a much more complicated version of Mike W's solution, substituting Profiteer for Market Crier and Harrow for Acreage (I used Market Crier/Harrow when I solved it).

Letting the wood build up is not a problem for Challenge 2, since you only need 1 wood to complete it. The real challenge, though, is to find the no-help-from-opponents solution.
 
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James R
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Yeah, I realised after writing it that I'd gone for convoluted rather than elegant.

No help from opponents, eh?

Thinking cap back on.
 
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James R
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A hah! Think I've got it:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Round 1:
First get out the outrider
Mimi (+1 grain) to play acreage

Round 2:
Sow/Bake (+1 grain) for two grain fields
Nab some wood

Round 3:
Sleeping corner

Yes?
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Mike T
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Yup!
 
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Eric Fletcher
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For challenge 3, easy way to get +1 occupation out:

Spoiler (click to reveal)

Don't forget that you can play Chief's Daughter for free when another player plays the Chief


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