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Subject: What about a resourceless card game rss

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Jose Correia
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Hello.

TOday i am thinking about what if we have a resourceless card game.

A game that instead of using mana to pay the cards ,you just ... play the cards.

I think in a way to control a little the game to avoid luck in the game: divide the game in Rounds (or hands). And 8 turns per hand

Each hand each player draw 8 cards, and the Round/hand will be played just with those 8 cards per players.

Each turn the player can do one action (or 3, or 4 i have decide it yet), and after doing his actions he passes the turn to his oponent.

Example: Player 1 in his turn, can put in play 1 creature, equip his creature, play an effect card, and pass his trun. Player 2 can put in play another creature, attack with it, after player 1 declaring blockers player 2 can play an instant effect card ... and so on

Depending in how much actions you can do in a turn, the hand will finish in more or less turns ...

What you think ... good idea, huh?
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Celina
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Sounds like Yu-Gi-Oh! Trading Card Game
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Jose Correia
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The thing is that i have an idea for a card game, and was thinking about removing the "energy" system from it. Just read the Game idea i have and tell me what you think ... and help if you can. Thanks


The turn/play mechanics is what i want to improve in this game, it can be simultaneous turns or can be like "normal" card games like Magic The Gathering.

But this game is not collectible, is just a set of fixed cards and the player has to the best he can do with his cards.

The idea i have in mind but i am trying to improve is:

I want to include something like "energy" in to all creatures but i don't know how do implement the energy + permanent damage, a creature loose Health Points every time it is attacked, equal to the attack power of the enemy creature. What i don't know how to keep track without putting millions of counters in the creature is how to implement the energy with counters + HP's with counters too ...

The idea is that each creature enter the game with X counter of Energy, where X will depend on the "level" of the creature. That level is more or less the same as your intelligence attribute.

There are 4 colours of energy and removing one energy and combining the colours of the energy, it will generate different effects.

To execute an ability from any creature, you must remove X energy counters from it. The counters can be placed again in the creature after resolving the ability, or the counters can moved out from the game and not being reusable for that creature.

I want to limit the number of powerful creatures, something like this: 8 of the most commons, 6 less commons + 4 + 2 +1. The deck will have just ONE BIG creature and the probability of getting that card is 1 / 64 (64 is the number of cards i want in the deck), so it is very hard to get the big creatures.

Instead of having card producing the energy, i think is better, to simplify the resource management that, each turn (and this time i am talking about a normal play/turn like M:TG, instead the other turn system i mentioned before of just playing the cards without paying the resources), the player gets one energy that he chooses and he can accumulate until he can put it in a creature and play it.

A creature cannot enter the battlefield if there is not enough energy to place in it, so the player needs to accumulate it before he can play the creature.

Another think i want is to implement 3 zones where te creatures are placed:

Attack Zone - The Creatures are moved here when they attack
Battlefield - The Creatures are here when they enter the game and are waiting to attack or using an ability
Out of Combat - after using an ability, the creature must move to this are and cannot, defend, attack, or play another ability

Using the tree zones will help to avoid rotating the creatures (remember that they have the counters on it) because rotating with the counters on it well do a mess with the counters ... but moving a card from zone to zone with the counters ... is not easy with loosing all the counters... so dont know how to do it. Where do i place the energy counters to avoid counter jumping from place to place? do i remove the energy system? (but energy is the heart of the game). Do i use Dice instead of counters (but how can i implement the 4 colours of energy with the dice?).

I have almost all the rules to make a prototype but i still have ideas that i have study because i want a game easy to play but with great strategy.

Thanks for your help.
 
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Mark McEvoy
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ptkaisen wrote:
TOday i am thinking about what if we have a resourceless card game.

Each turn the player can do one action (or 3, or 4 i have decide it yet), and after doing his actions he passes the turn to his oponent.


...so, the actions become the resources. Not sure I see the improvement here.
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Jose Correia
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thatmarkguy wrote:
ptkaisen wrote:
TOday i am thinking about what if we have a resourceless card game.

Each turn the player can do one action (or 3, or 4 i have decide it yet), and after doing his actions he passes the turn to his oponent.


...so, the actions become the resources. Not sure I see the improvement here.


What you mean? the improvement is using the actions instead other resources? ...
 
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Jose Correia
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when i say moving a card the counters on it, i am talking about the counters fisically ... moving the card togheter with the counter is not easy taks ... the counters are a little problem when moving the cards
 
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Guido Gloor
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Celinashope wrote:

Not quite, Yu-Gi-Oh has resources: The cards in your hands, and the ones in your deck. Deciding which card you'll play from among those in your hand is allocating resources, with knowledge of what further resources you might get from your deck.

The only card game without any kind of resources that I'm aware of is War.
 
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Kevin B. Smith
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ptkaisen wrote:
The turn/play mechanics is what i want to improve in this game, it can be simultaneous turns or can be like "normal" card games like Magic The Gathering.

I don't consider Magic to be a "normal" card game. Sure, it's the "normal" CCG. But when you look at the universe of card games, Magic is a bit of an outlier. I have never played it (and don't plan to).

Have you looked at other card games for inspiration, like Blue Moon, Warhammer: Invasion, Dominion, Fairy Tale, Jambo, etc.?
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Guido Gloor
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Or GOSU, that uses creatures, too.
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John "Omega" Williams
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Dragon Storm uses this and does not even have a hand or deck in the normal senses. Some other CCGs go resourceless too. Not sure if Rage did or not. Been ages.

Games that do not use some sort of resource to power effects tennd to be ver freeform in play as oft the goal is to build a "character" or other central unit that faces off against the opponents assembly.

Action points/resources works for card games as it acts as a sort of limiter on how crazy a player can go with card combos. Whereas other games use the hand itself as the limiter and it essentially becomes the resource.
 
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Joe Mucchiello
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peakhope wrote:
I don't consider Magic to be a "normal" card game. Sure, it's the "normal" CCG. But when you look at the universe of card games, Magic is a bit of an outlier. I have never played it (and don't plan to).

Complete hijack: Aside from its collectability (and perhaps the number of unique cards), what makes MTG not-normal? And how do you know it is not-normal if you have not played it?
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Kevin B. Smith
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jmucchiello wrote:
peakhope wrote:
I don't consider Magic to be a "normal" card game. Sure, it's the "normal" CCG. But when you look at the universe of card games, Magic is a bit of an outlier. I have never played it (and don't plan to).

Complete hijack: Aside from its collectability (and perhaps the number of unique cards), what makes MTG not-normal? And how do you know it is not-normal if you have not played it?

This is the second or third thread recently where posters have referred to mechanics (and especially terminology) that apparently are in Magic as if they were universal, whereas I haven't seen them in many/any other games. "Mana" is one simple example, and "the defending player chooses who it attacked" is another. Also, the fact that it is a deck-built game, which is rare outside the CCG (or more recently the LCG) genre.

I guess it's not so much that Magic is abnormal as much as that it is not "the normal". My sense is that some/many Magic players believe that the card game world revolves around Magic. If someone is going to design a card game, they would be well-served by being familiar with a variety of card games. It wasn't clear to me if the OP is.
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Eugene
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Yes, I agree with Kevin. There's a whole world of card games out there not driven my mana, combos, attack values, and deckbuilding.
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John "Omega" Williams
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One of the reasons Magics system is not more common is that WOTC had a tendency to go after other companies with simmilar, or outright copycat systems. Though in a few cases they tried to sue companies for some pretty weird things.

That and alot of early CCGs tried one of two routes. The super easy "giant growth" design of +1 card + +1 card etc to defeat opponents set. Or they went off in sometimes very odd directions. Which is actually good for the industry. (and sales as why buy a game that playes alot like MTG when you allready have MTG. Hook the player on a new and innovative mechanic.)
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Jose Correia
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peakhope wrote:
If someone is going to design a card game, they would be well-served by being familiar with a variety of card games. It wasn't clear to me if the OP is.


I am not familiar with many games, thats why i am posting tons of questions in this and ohter forums to see what game should i take a look.

The problems is that i dont want to buy all those games to playtest here in home ... i just can read the rules and compare the recoursce and combat system.

But even not knowing many card games (i play M.TG a little, but thats all) i am having a good idea about what to do with my game and the first propotype will be ready , i think, in the next month so i can start to playtest the game.

Thanks to all the people that is helping me
 
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Jose Correia
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garygarison wrote:
Yes, I agree with Kevin. There's a whole world of card games out there not driven my mana, combos, attack values, and deckbuilding.


i Know that ... but i cannot buy and test all the thousand or million games that are here in BGG ... if i could know wich ones are the best i can read the rules to have any ideas for game ... that would be great.

I like GoSu, i watched a video in youtube about it, but i want the full set of rules to download.

I want the rules for the games: Blue Moon, Warhammer: Invasion, Dominion, Fairy Tale, Jambo for download and analyse the rules here at home. I cant afford, right now, buying all of those games to test the rules in my home.

The problem is that i cannot find the full rules for all those games ... anyone can help me please?

Edit: i have found a the rules for Warhammer and Dominion ... i still need the other games rules
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Guido Gloor
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ptkaisen wrote:
i still need the other games rules

It's often a good idea to go to the files area of a game here on BGG, and do a sort of them by hotness (number of thumbs) - this will often get the rules to the top, or near the top, as it does with the ones from Gosu:

Gosu English Rules.pdf

Failing that, you can try the publisher's site, that's often linked from the game page here as well.
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Kevin B. Smith
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ptkaisen wrote:
I want the rules for the games: Blue Moon, Warhammer: Invasion, Dominion, Fairy Tale, Jambo for download and analyse the rules here at home. I cant afford, right now, buying all of those games to test the rules in my home.

The rules for Fairy Tale are linked from the BGG game page (in the "Web Links" section). Many/most BGG game pages either have the rules posted as a file, or as a web link. Plus many reviews go into pretty specific detail about the game play.
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Wim van Gruisen
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For many games that you consider 'normal' (that is, Magic and the like), the rules are only part of the game. A small part, even. The core of these 'normal' card games is that almost each of them has lots of cards with text that breaks the rules.
If you want to analyse the game, just reading the rules is not enough. You miss all those extra rules that make the game.
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Nate K
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Whymme wrote:
For many games that you consider 'normal' (that is, Magic and the like), the rules are only part of the game. A small part, even. The core of these 'normal' card games is that almost each of them has lots of cards with text that breaks the rules.
If you want to analyse the game, just reading the rules is not enough. You miss all those extra rules that make the game.


That's true. My wife and I had some friends over last night and were able to explain the rules to Dominion in about three minutes. But our friends didn't "get" the game, because they had no concept of the abilities available on the dozens of different cards, nor the interactions the cards could have with each other.
 
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Jose Correia
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Whymme wrote:
For many games that you consider 'normal' (that is, Magic and the like), the rules are only part of the game. A small part, even. The core of these 'normal' card games is that almost each of them has lots of cards with text that breaks the rules.
If you want to analyse the game, just reading the rules is not enough. You miss all those extra rules that make the game.


Thats true ... but i live in a little island where i dont have many people that like to play games ... i just know a few people that plays Magic The Gathering and other few play Chess ...

In 8 years that i have been living i have played UNO once, and RISK once ... thats all ... people here dont like games ... they dont like to use the brain ... they just like partying and drinking and partying again.

I cant playtest all those games, but i would like to. May be if i could play those games online ... ? do you know a website where i can play them online? ... thanks for the help
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Kevin B. Smith
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ptkaisen wrote:
I cant playtest all those games, but i would like to. May be if i could play those games online ... ? do you know a website where i can play them online? ... thanks for the help

Each BGG game page mentions any online sites where that game can be played. yucata and BSW are the two largest (and both are free). Of those, yucata is less dificult to get signed up and start playing games. Some games (like Race for the Galaxy) have downloadable versions you can run on your computer while offline.

Note that playing on a computer won't give you the same feeling as holding real cards in your hand. And it can be harder to learn online, because you can't pick things up and look at the from different angles. But if you don't have access to the games, it is great to have the option of playing online.
 
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WAN CHIU
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ptkaisen wrote:


Thats true ... but i live in a little island where i dont have many people that like to play games ...


I would love to spend a few months on a little island... and play SOLO games!!
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