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Subject: Smoke rule rss

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Yiu Fai Adrian Lui
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In the rule book (1.2.5) it says that smoke is a LOS hindrance. But it also says that any fire traced into a smoke hex is subject to a hindrance DRM also. So does it has TEM effect also?

Second question, it says that fire traced out of a Smoke hex incurs an additional +1 DRM. To confirm, if it is a 1/2" smoke, the total DRM is 3. Am I correct?

Third question, if there is a 1/2" smoke in an orchard hex, does the two different of hindrances effect add up. Or if 2 MMC put 2 1/2" smoke in the same hex, does the hindrance effect cumulative?

And lastly a related question to question 3, the rule book states that the DRM is up to a maximum of +3 per hex. Does it imply the +3 is from the source of Smoke alone, or it combine with other kind of hindrance like Orchard.

Thanks for the help!
 
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I'll have a go at it.

proflui wrote:
In the rule book (1.2.5) it says that smoke is a LOS hindrance. But it also says that any fire traced into a smoke hex is subject to a hindrance DRM also. So does it has TEM effect also?

Second question, it says that fire traced out of a Smoke hex incurs an additional +1 DRM. To confirm, if it is a 1/2" smoke, the total DRM is 3. Am I correct?

Third question, if there is a 1/2" smoke in an orchard hex, does the two different of hindrances effect add up. Or if 2 MMC put 2 1/2" smoke in the same hex, does the hindrance effect cumulative?

And lastly a related question to question 3, the rule book states that the DRM is up to a maximum of +3 per hex. Does it imply the +3 is from the source of Smoke alone, or it combine with other kind of hindrance like Orchard.

Thanks for the help!


1. Smoke works as inherent TEM (fills up the whole hex), but you can also shoot past it (at a +2 penalty).

2. Yuppers

3. I think the smoke +2 overrides the orchard hindrance, and I'm not sure if smoke hindrances stack.

If someone could clarify 3 for me, since I don't have a rulebook handy.
 
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Eddy del Rio
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proflui wrote:
In the rule book (1.2.5) it says that smoke is a LOS hindrance. But it also says that any fire traced into a smoke hex is subject to a hindrance DRM also. So does it has TEM effect also?

Second question, it says that fire traced out of a Smoke hex incurs an additional +1 DRM. To confirm, if it is a 1/2" smoke, the total DRM is 3. Am I correct?

Third question, if there is a 1/2" smoke in an orchard hex, does the two different of hindrances effect add up. Or if 2 MMC put 2 1/2" smoke in the same hex, does the hindrance effect cumulative?

And lastly a related question to question 3, the rule book states that the DRM is up to a maximum of +3 per hex. Does it imply the +3 is from the source of Smoke alone, or it combine with other kind of hindrance like Orchard.

Thanks for the help!

1. Almost. It has hindrance DRM between firer and target, but also provides hindrance DRM IN the target hex (if there's smoke in the target hex). Though it is in the hex like a TEM, since the smoke doesn't protect from bullets and just makes targeting more difficult, it is still a Hindrance.
2. Yes. Imagine that your location is filled with smoke; you can hardly see a thing to fire outwards. (2+1=3)
3. Yes, they are cumulative. I don't follow your reference to a +3 maximum. In fact, there is nothing prohibiting placement of two smoke counters in the same hex, but all the penalties would be cumulative. One 1/2" smoke counter in an In-Season Orchard or Grain hex will provide +3 Hindrance DRM for fire passing through it.

Lastly, the end of 2nd paragraph of 3.2 specifies that any Hindrance DRM that reaches +6, simply blocks LOS entirely.

Hope this helps.
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Miikka Sohlman
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edelrio wrote:
I don't follow your reference to a +3 maximum.

It's there in the rules (1.2.5: "...and up to a maximum of +3 per hex").

It means no matter how many smoke counters you put in a hex you only ever get +3 maximum hindrance out of it (and additional +1 if shooting from within), but it's still cumulative with the other hindrance in that hex such as orchard. So I think +4 is the maximum total hindrance you'll ever get in a single hex, in Starter Kits at least.

Also, what Eddy said about the smoke-in-your-hex still being a hindrance and not TEM, is important. There's a general rule out there that TEM is never cumulative. For example in Starter Kit 2 a Gun Emplacement TEM is not cumulative with the TEM of the woods. Or Height Advantage TEM is not cumulative with other TEM if available. So once you get that hammered in your brain, you'll only get confused if you treat the smoke as TEM because the smoke IS cumulative with the other TEM in the terrain.

But yeah, the smoke is an exception in that it's the only hindrance that applies even if it's in the firer or target hex...
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Martí Cabré

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If the SKs have wreck hindrance, that's another +1 for a +5 hindrance in a single hex!
 
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Miikka Sohlman
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That's right. SK3 does have Wreck hindrance.
 
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Patrick Ireland
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SMOKE is great to place in an enemy's Gun hex or AFV hex.

Suddenly they have a +4 hindrance.

Of course the AFV can just drive out of the smoke at its first available opportunity, but at least temporarily it has +4 hindrance (SK QRDC case 18 and SKRB 1.2.5).

Equally important is to remember that Ordnance SMOKE is Area Target Type (SKRB 3.2.4) so the shooter does not suffer a vs. motion or Moving Vehicle penalty (SR QRDC 24) when targeting a hex containing a AFV.

Area Target Type is shooting at a hex not what is in the hex.

Pat
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Yiu Fai Adrian Lui
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So if 2 1/2" Smoke is in a house, the total DRM is 3( 2+2 but cap at 3) from smoke plus the TEM of the house? This can make a DRM of 6 in a hex! Please confirm. Thanks.
 
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Martí Cabré

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Firing against an hex with a stone building and two infantry smoke counters is a +6. Note that a hindrance of +6 blocks the LOS through the hex, but TEM is not counted for that purpose.

Firing from that same hex would be a +4, as TEM is not counted in the hex of the firer.

Relevant rule is 1.2.5, SK3 and higher versions. In SK2 and lower rule versions there are no SMOKE hindrance limits per hex, but they are overridden by higher version rules.

Edit: relevant rule.
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Eddy del Rio
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SK1: There is no rule 1.2.5
SK2: Rule 1.2.5 mentions no maximum Smoke DRM, only stipulating that for Ordnance Smoke the Hindrance DRM = +3.
ASLRB2: A24.2 "There is no limit to the number of SMOKE counters which can be placed in a hex but the total Hindrance DRM of SMOKE for any one Location can never be more than +3 [EXC: outgoing LOS Hindrance; 24.8]."

SMOKE = Vehicular Smoke, Ordnance Smoke, Ordnance WP, Infantry Smoke.
Since Ordnance Smoke/WP may be placed during PFPh for full strength, or during the DFPh for lessened strength, it is conceivable that the sad occupants of a hex could be hit in the DFPh by White Phosphorus 3 times, each placing a +1WP for a total (max) of +3 (and 3 NMCs).

Thanks for the max value correction, Miikka.
 
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Miikka Sohlman
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Hmm, I admit I didn't check the earlier versions of the SK rules. But the SK expansion rules sez:

any fire traced through or into a Smoke hex is subject to a hindrance DRM per hex (+3 for full 5/8" Smoke; +2 for 1/2" Smoke, Dispersed Smoke, or WP; +1 for Dispersed WP and up to a maximum of +3 per hex)

It's not salmon colored. Was this erratized in SK3 perhaps?
 
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Martí Cabré

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Hipsu wrote:
Hmm, I admit I didn't check the earlier versions of the SK rules. But the SK expansion rules sez:

any fire traced through or into a Smoke hex is subject to a hindrance DRM per hex (+3 for full 5/8" Smoke; +2 for 1/2" Smoke, Dispersed Smoke, or WP; +1 for Dispersed WP and up to a maximum of +3 per hex)

It's not salmon colored. Was this erratized in SK3 perhaps?


Yes. In SK3 1.2.5 the maximum of +3 is salmon colored.
 
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