Recommend
103 
 Thumb up
 Hide
674 Posts
1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5  Next »  [27] | 

Wargames» Forums » General

Subject: Is it sacrilege to say that the Consimworld forums stink? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: us_smart_them_dumb [+] csw [+] get_off_my_lawn [+] [View All]
Shane Brewer
United States
Monticello
Utah
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I am quite new to the wargaming hobby so maybe I just don't know how they work, but the Consimworld forums are probably the worst forums I've ever seen anywhere. No threads, no topics. A conversation seems to be impossible. It seems like they are using internet forum software from the 50's.

Or, alternatively, maybe I am just an idiot and don't know how to make them work effectively. Do I have to log in to suddenly have access to the secret threaded discussions? They seem highly regarded by grognards as the place to go for game discussion and information but I would way rather come to BGG. Please don't revoke my wargamer card for saying this...I am willing to repent if someone can show me what I'm missing.
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon Kolman
United States
Sacramento
California
flag msg tools
I stated something similar a while back.

You would think in this day and age, they would get their crap wired and scrape together a few dollars and buy a vBulletin license.

That is one of the reasons I don't go out to their site. If I need to watch a video on how to search a forum, then I will not be a visitor.
39 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pablo Klinkisch
Germany
Heidelberg
Baden-Württemberg
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I thought that was vox populi.
(ducks)
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
olivier R
France
flag msg tools
Avatar
I am pretty sure that Grrrok and Mrhugg the cavemen used the same type of bulletin boards as Consimworld.
55 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pelle Nilsson
Sweden
Linköping
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
A quick search can probably find you 200 threads like this one here on bgg.

While I prefer the threaded type of forum we see here, csw actually do work quite well once you subscribe to all the topics you are interested in. It is so easy to just go there and quickly click your way through all the unread texts (well, unless you subscribe to too many topics).

More importantly the amount of useful information on almost any wargame is much greater on csw. Usually you will find the designer hangs out there a lot more than here, and there are often long discussions on games before they are released.

I wrote this little piece of userjs that makes navigation on csw slightly easier (removing some noise from the pages plus makes it possible to browse unsubscribed by simply pressing space bar until there is nothing more to read, rescales avatar images to a more reasonable size, and some other minor tweaks).
50 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Charles Vasey
Scotland
Mortlake, London
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It's not sacrilege but don't expect most Consimmers to care. I use both "formats" and can see benefits to both.

But isn't this like the "Why do you drive on the left" arguments? Comsimworld has evolved a way that suits its users who have "invested" in it, BGGers have done the same in their bit of the forest. Neither are likely to be persuaded to change en masse by one telling the other he's wrong. (Always assuming "wrong" has any meaning here.)
55 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Was George Orwell an Optimist?
United States
Corvallis
Oregon
flag msg tools
The Herbie Nichols Project - Dr. Cyclops' Dream
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It's not sacrilege, but it's redundant as hell. Since BGG doesn't stink, you'll have no trouble finding the umpteen previous threads where this has been discussed.
65 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shane Brewer
United States
Monticello
Utah
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Good points Pelle and Charles -

My intent was not just to bash or convert but to try and see if I was missing something (maybe an option or a setting that would tidy CSW up for me). I will say that just because someone is used to something doesn't mean it couldn't be improved. I will keep checking the forums out and trying to glean what I can from them.
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pelle Nilsson
Sweden
Linköping
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
On the other hand discussing which web forum is better is a bit sad, considering how much crap they all are. I started reading some usenet news again earlier this year and it reminded me just how much better news was.

Not only is the user interface for web forums hopelessly primitive (where are all my filters, killfiles, sort-functions?), but more importantly with news I have all my newsgroups, even if they exist on different servers, in one place, so I instantly get a list of all updated threads. With web forums I need to click around to login to 5-6 different servers almost daily just to keep up with boardgame topics (plus I regularly read a number of other web forums on other non-game topics).

It's becoming silly. Every game company almost have their own forum. Would be so much easier if they just had a news group each, or a few new groups, and everything could be browsed from a single location.

Maybe some new news-like protocol would be even better, but I haven't heard of one. Web forums, often with overlapping contents, spread out over thousands of servers just isn't a very good solution.
19 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Charles Vasey
Scotland
Mortlake, London
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DrBrewhaha wrote:
Good points Pelle and Charles -

My intent was not just to bash or convert but to try and see if I was missing something (maybe an option or a setting that would tidy CSW up for me). I will say that just because someone is used to something doesn't mean it couldn't be improved. I will keep checking the forums out and trying to glean what I can from them.


I don't think you are missing anything really; you'll have to "re-learn" much. It does remind me of the time I first drove on a roundabout (not sure what the US term is) in France; it felt as if everything was wrong and made me feel queasy. Why was everybody else in the wrong place!!!!

Certainly many things can be improved but as a general rule you need to know enough about the other "side's" position to put together an argument that compels them. That often requires you immersing yourself in their madcap ways. That can be a lot of work for little return.

More and more wargame designers work here as well as CSW. I think business will drive them towards you, rather than you have to pursue them.
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pelle Nilsson
Sweden
Linköping
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Problem is csw hasn't evolved since around 1995 or so when it started. That was long before web forums as we know them today, and it just happened that the technology they choose wasn't one that survived competition with other alternatives.

While I see some benefits to having the no-threaded-format (hey, it works for twitter too) the overall user interface could really use an update. Not saying it needs to look more modern, but it just isn't very easy to use.

It is a bit fun to see some relics from the early days of www still hanging on without much change, like good old www.grognard.com.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Wesley
Nepal
Aberdeen
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mb
CSW = 'Clique Sum Wargamer' and usually regarded as their "elite esprit", usually... whistle
14 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
M@tthijs
Netherlands
Venlo
flag msg tools
This user is outstanding in mediocre videogaming
badge
Did you visit my www.kobudovenlo.nl? It has game info
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Charles Vasey wrote:
Comsimworld has evolved a way that suits its users who have "invested" in it, BGGers have done the same in their bit of the forest.
Yeah, well, I've been on BGG since 2004 so I can hardly call myself an early adopter. Still, I found my way here.

I look at Consimworld too, now and then. Being a wargamer. I still don't have a clue, so I just gave up. Sometimes Google will hand me a post, must most of the time I'll just ignore it. Too me, it's just too unfriendly*)

Besides, all the answers I've been looking for in recent years have been answered within 6 hours on BGG's wargame subdomain. Lowering my motivation to look there even further.

YMMV, of course.

100s of these posts here? Must've missed them. Anyway, I like the repetition.

*)=high entrance investment in terms of finding out how it works


Edit:addition
pelni wrote:
It is a bit fun to see some relics from the early days of www still hanging on without much change, like good old www.grognard.com.

Now that's a great source of information, relic and all. I still mail my website additions/changes when I have them, plus I report any broken links. Grognard.com is great in it's simplicity and completeness.
19 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eddy Sterckx
Belgium
Vilvoorde
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
pelni wrote:
On the other hand discussing which web forum is better is a bit sad, considering how much crap they all are. I started reading some usenet news again earlier this year and it reminded me just how much better news was.


One major disadvantage of non-binary newsgroups is that you can't attach pictures to your posts.

The second is that Usenet isn't part of what the gaming public sees as the "Web" - in other words : no new converts joining the discussions there.

pelni wrote:

Not only is the user interface for web forums hopelessly primitive (where are all my filters, killfiles, sort-functions?),


Well, at least the killfile is here : on the user's avatar click on "tools" then on "hide user's messages" (or something similar)

Important : announcing you've plonked someone in here is against the house-rules and will get you into trouble with the admins.

pelni wrote:

but more importantly with news I have all my newsgroups, even if they exist on different servers, in one place, so I instantly get a list of all updated threads. With web forums I need to click around to login to 5-6 different servers almost daily just to keep up with boardgame topics


I stopped doing that and treat BGG as my one-stop-shop. If developers don't bother to keep me up to date in here, the 'Net's largest boardgame collective, I don't bother looking at what they have to offer. Let those who want to sell me stuff do the work.

14 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Arthur
Australia
New South Wales
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Charles Vasey wrote:
It's not sacrilege but don't expect most Consimmers to care. I use both "formats" and can see benefits to both.

But isn't this like the "Why do you drive on the left" arguments? Comsimworld has evolved a way that suits its users who have "invested" in it, BGGers have done the same in their bit of the forest. Neither are likely to be persuaded to change en masse by one telling the other he's wrong. (Always assuming "wrong" has any meaning here.)



Driving on the left is of course correct...

...on the other matter 'Horses for Courses' seems to be the dictum to apply here or maybe 'When in Rome...'
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pelle Nilsson
Sweden
Linköping
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
eddy_sterckx wrote:

One major disadvantage of non-binary newsgroups is that you can't attach pictures to your posts.


Not only a bad thing, but sure sometimes it is nice to have inline images yes (often a link to an external image is just as good). Maybe that's an indication something more modern than news would be better, but I still like the idea of everything in one place (and it being distributed like news, not all on one server like google/yahoo groups).

Quote:
The second is that Usenet isn't part of what the gaming public sees as the "Web" - in other words : no new converts joining the discussions there.


Ideally (imo) bgg (and csw) could still keep a web forum frontend, but have a link to a page describing how to access the same topics using a news client.

Hm. Maybe the bgg xml protocol could be used to create a bgg-forum-to-usenet-connection?

Quote:

Not only is the user interface for web forums hopelessly primitive (where are all my filters, killfiles, sort-functions?),

Well, at least the killfile is here : on the user's avatar click on "tools" then on "hide user's messages" (or something similar)


Hiding specific users is only part of what you can do.

Quote:

I stopped doing that and treat BGG as my one-stop-shop. If developers don't bother to keep me up to date in here, the 'Net's largest boardgame collective, I don't bother looking at what they have to offer. Let those who want to sell me stuff do the work.


For boardgames that approach might work (although I need at least csw too), but then there are sites for miniature games, computer games, game design, game programming ..., it quickly adds up. I probably have registered for over 50-100 web forums, many with overlapping subjects (but of course I don't actually login to all of them regularly, or ever).
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
WAN CHIU
United States
Arcadia
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
If one is can master ASL and Up Front rules, convoluted/labyrinth like CSW won't be a problem.
20 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Trauth
Australia
Pretty much everywhere
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've never found it to be a problem. I suppose it all ends up in how much effort one wants to engage in to try to find out additional information.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Kreuzer
Australia
ACT
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
My ideal site would have a nicer interface than consim's, probably with the wiki deal bgg has, but just be about wargames, board computer & miniature, all in one place.

As it is, here & consim deal with my boardgame needs, both are ok, but neither is ideal.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
♬♪♪ ♫ ♩ ♫♫♪ ♩♬♪ ♫
Australia
MURRUMBEENA
Victoria
flag msg tools
badge
All reality is a game. Physics at its most fundamental, the very fabric of our universe, results directly from the interaction of certain fairly simple rules, and chance... (Iain Banks)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
pelni wrote:
Maybe some new news-like protocol would be even better, but I haven't heard of one. Web forums, often with overlapping contents, spread out over thousands of servers just isn't a very good solution.

Hierarchical RSS feeds (for each thread / user / database item etc) would solve the problem. I'd love to be able to export subscription updates from BGG into a decent aggregator.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Kreuzer
Australia
ACT
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
Yes, if they all just had rss feeds... build your own virtual site.

Otherwise maybe an aggregator site would do the trick, but it would be a hairpulling exercise to maintain independently.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bill Lawson
United States
Rutland
Vermont
flag msg tools
Boston Redsox
badge
New England Patriots!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
usrlocal wrote:
I always wonder if somehow I don't have my CSW interface setup properly. When I'm in a game folder reading messages I can only see 2 or 3 messages at a time before having to advance to the next page. Is that normal?


You have to reset your preferences.

Click onto a forum
Go to preferences
Go to miscellaneous settings
Set messages to 50
set characters to 80000


Thats how mine is set.
36 
 Thumb up
0.52
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
M St
Australia
Unspecified
flag msg tools
designer
RoC1909 wrote:

That is one of the reasons I don't go out to their site. If I need to watch a video on how to search a forum, then I will not be a visitor.

Excellent. If you need to watch the video to find your way around then the site is not for you.
15 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rodrigo Alvarez
Spain
Gijon
Asturias
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have just seen that you can set topics as threaded conversations in preferences. It didn't seem to do anything different though.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Enrico Viglino
United States
Eugene
OR
flag msg tools
Slowed - BGG's moderation policies have driven me partially from here
badge
http://thegamebox.byethost15.com/smf/
Avatar
mb
Sphere wrote:
It's not sacrilege, but it's redundant as hell. Since BGG doesn't stink, you'll have no trouble finding the umpteen previous threads where this has been discussed.


So long as you use Google search with the site: functionality.

BGG's search DOES suck.
12 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5  Next »  [27] | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.