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Subject: Build-Queue manipulating Nile-Cards rss

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Frank Otte
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I think the effects of the two Nile-Cards, which manipulate the build queue are somehow vague described and need some heavy clarification.

1. The card, which lets you build first in all queues:

Its clear, that you can do it in all queues, even if you prospect, and that all other ships can still build. But, WHEN can you play the card? Sometimes it can be preferable not to build first (for example waiting for "cheaper" graves) or to see, what and if the other players build. Can you play that card, AFTER the first one has built in a build queue? If yes, with what effect then? Further, on the card says you MAY build first in every build-queue. When will you have to decide that exactly? Do you have to decide in advance for ALL build-queues at the moment, you play the card or can you wait? Are you allowed to play the card only before the FIRST build-queue (Sphinx) or also later? Questions over questions...

2. The cards, which lets you place a ship in an already full build-queue:

When do you build with that card? At last? It seems so, but that isn't mentioned explicitely. What, if a sooner player omitts building - does your ship count in prospecting then, "jumping in", or do you still build at last? Can you combine this card with the Nile-Card mentioned in (1), to build in an already full build-queue first?


 
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Harold Coleman
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Hermjard wrote:
I think the effects of the two Nile-Cards, which manipulate the build queue are somehow vague described and need some heavy clarification.

1. The card, which lets you build first in all queues:

Its clear, that you can do it in all queues, even if you prospect, and that all other ships can still build. But, WHEN can you play the card? Sometimes it can be preferable not to build first (for example waiting for "cheaper" graves) or to see, what and if the other players build. Can you play that card, AFTER the first one has built in a build queue? If yes, with what effect then? Further, on the card says you MAY build first in every build-queue. When will you have to decide that exactly? Do you have to decide in advance for ALL build-queues at the moment, you play the card or can you wait? Are you allowed to play the card only before the FIRST build-queue (Sphinx) or also later? Questions over questions...

2. The cards, which lets you place a ship in an already full build-queue:

When do you build with that card? At last? It seems so, but that isn't mentioned explicitely. What, if a sooner player omitts building - does your ship count in prospecting then, "jumping in", or do you still build at last? Can you combine this card with the Nile-Card mentioned in (1), to build in an already full build-queue first?


My answer is not an authoritative one, but the rules and these cards' text seem pretty clear to me when they are taken literally.

1. You may play it "any time." Taken literally, this means either before any builds are resolved or before any particular one is resolved. For example, you could wait and play it just before the Pyramid/Temple build and go first only for that build; or you could play it before the Sphinx build and go first for ALL builds where you have a ship, even your speculative placements. It does NOT give you the option of declining to build first; the card does not say you MAY build first, it says "he builds first" at each site after you play the card. The only "may" on the card allows all other players the right to build even if you placed a speculative ship on a site, jumped to the head of the line by playing the card and kicked the #3 player out to the speculative build spot.

2. This card guarantees you a build at a site even with a speculative ship placement. In other words, in the example given in the rules, Red is guaranteed a build even if the other 3 players build at the site if he plays the card. Again, the card is played "any time," so you can place a speculative ship and, if another player passes, take his build spot without having to use the card; but if all players build, use your card to build 4th at the location. There is no point in combining the two cards since you may place a speculative boat at any full site and the first card guarantees you first build even with a speculative placement. I think this card could have been better worded, such as "You can build when speculating at a site even if all other build spots are used." The actual wording it simply a description of a speculative build placement, which you can do anyway without the card.

 
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Werner Bär
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hgcoleman wrote:
It does NOT give you the option of declining to build first; the card does not say you MAY build first, it says "he builds first" at each site after you play the card.

You're talking about the english version of the card. The original german version (which the OP likely owns) indeed says you may build first.
 
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Frank Otte
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Ad 1: Indeed I am speaking of the german version, which additionally says in the card addendum in the rules "may", not "must" or "the player does this and that". Furthermore, the first answer post to my question contradicts itself. Namely, the author requests to take it literally, to play the card at "any time". But if you take the card text also literally, that isn't possible, what the author demands: the card text says, to go first in building. But this isn't possible anymore, when the first one has already built. THEN you can, maybe, build sooner than the other players, who didn't build yet, but you cannot build first anymore. BUT this is, what the cards demands: to build first, NOT, to build as soon as possible. Thereby assume, that you cannot reverse already done build actions retrospectively with this card. So the questions stays: what effect has the card, when it is played after the first build of a bulding site?

Ad 2: Again, playing "any time" means just that. It's includes the freedom, not to play the card in the last possible moment, but sooner. So again, the question stays, what effect has the card, when it IS played sooner, especially, is the "prospecting state" still valid, after the card is played, or not. And: can you combine it with card (1) to go first in a building-queue, in which you originally only prospected.
 
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Frank Otte
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One addition to Nile-Card (2): Please note, that the text of this card has - at least in german version - nearly zero information value. It says "You may place yourself next to an already full build-queue." - which is possible ANYWAYS, in prospecting state.

Only after reading the card addendum in the rules, you learn, that this card enables you to build under ALL circumstances, presumably meaning, even if none of the other three players omits building. Neither the card, nor the addendum says, under which exact conditions your building happens, especially, at which point you can build, if one of the former players omits building.
 
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