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Subject: New Technology Levels - Upgrades rss

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Ivan Trombik
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Rules-Quote 9.10.4.To Upgrade a Ship, it must be in a System with a Ship Yard etc....The Ship must not move for an entire turn(it must begin and end the turn at the Ship Yard).

Question: By Logic and by Post from another BGG-User, one ROUND=three TURNS(=3PHASES)+EcoPhase. Word -TURN- in Rule 9.10.4 is therefore one Phase. Argh.

Example: Say I Upgrade a specific Tech in Eco-Phase, then when I'm the Active Player, say I move in my Turn(say 1st Phase) with 2 Combat-Ships into the System with a SY(that SY has any SY Tech,HullSize Capability doesnt matter),and to benefit from the Upgrade, these 2 Ships cannot be moved until my next TURN(=2nd Phase), but in my other two TURNS(=2nd and 3rd Phase) they can move again. They are not blocked for one ROUND.

Am I playing this correct? (I need now another Turn of coffee to recover from my confused Phase in this Round).
 
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Ted Duby
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In your example you would move the 2 Combat ships into the system with the SY on your first turn (phase in your terminology). Then on your second turn, you must leave the ships at the SY and pay the upgrade cost (no movement allowed). Finally, on your third turn you can move them again.

That is how it works.
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Russell Woodland
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MajorOracle wrote:
In your example you would move the 2 Combat ships into the system with the SY on your first turn (phase in your terminology). Then on your second turn, you must leave the ships at the SY and pay the upgrade cost (no movement allowed). Finally, on your third turn you can move them again.

That is how it works.


You just beat me too it. That is exactly right.

Turn One = Move to Ship yard
Turn Two = Remain at Ship yard for turn
Turn Three = Move as normal
Economy Phase

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Guido Gloor
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Terminology is important, yeah We have phases, turns and rounds, and also a sequence of play.

The sequence of play is the complete sequence of three turns per player and then an economic phase - essentially, the whole thing that encompasses all of the stuff in 3.0. There doesn't seem to be a name for one iteration in that sequence.

The term phase is used in two contexts:

1) Parts of a turn (movement phase, combat phase, exploration phase)
2) The economic phase

A turn is the sequence of the three in-turn phases (movement phase, combat phase, exploration phase) of one player. Each player gets a turn before the turn marker progresses, and when the turn marker progresses after turn 3 an economic phase starts, and then the turn marker is reset to turn 1. Because for an upgrade, ships have to remain stationary for a turn, they can't move in turn 2 if they moved to the shipyard in turn 1 and they want to upgrade in turn 2. They can't move in turn 1 and then upgrade right away (still in turn 1), because they moved.

A round is used in merely in the context of combat rounds. A combat round is one segment of combat in which all unscreened ships from A to E fire at each other.

The terms are used very consistently throughout the rules, so I suggest not using "phase" here. I, too, am guilty of using "round" for an iteration of the sequence of play, it just makes sense to me, but the rules do not talk of rounds in that context.
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Ted Duby
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Excellent summary haslo!
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Ivan Trombik
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Have I answered all your Questions and provided good Customer Service? THAT MAKES NO SENSE! That's the Paradox, my Friend!
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Thx All and may the ROUND be with You.
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Michael Matecha
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Haslo - excellent summary of the confusion in naming conventions which have been on my mind lately.

I have a remedy in mind but i'll put it in its own post tonight.
 
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Cracky McCracken
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Twice in the game, once on one of the prod sheets and once on the back of the box, the larger turn or round is called the Economic Turn. There are probably other examples, those two just come to mind.

The shorter turns are just "Turn 1", "Turn 2" or "Turn 3" or just "turns".

I've noticed players here at bgg.com call the larger turn the "Econ Turn" and that seems like the best at this point. I suspect Jim will clear it up in the Living Rules.

The same rules problem happened to me with MS Pipelines and movement. If an MS moves, other ships must wait until next turn to use the MS for it's movement bonus. Which type of turn? The larger "econ turn" that spans the whole game year? or the shorter turn1, turn2...?

The answer for me so far has been the shorter turns. (just like in the examples given to you above)
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Ocean Druen
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I've been playing these both differently and maybe I can get some clarification.

For upgrades I have been counting the economic turn as a turn, so if I move my ships to a shipyard on turn 3 I can use the economic turn to upgrade, then move again on turn four. I have liked this rule because it simulates bringing the ships in during a "production time" when ships are being built, it also adds a little more strategic thought what to do with those obsolete ships (If I go on the offense I can't have my free upgrade turn).

MS pipelines on the other hand I treat slightly differently. The Economic turn does not count as a turn and they get flipped at the start of turn 1. This way pipeline that move to a planet on turn three do not get the extra 1CP bonus during the economic phase.

This seemed right to me at the time, but now I am seeing that I am treating these two situations different - if I had a choice I would keep the Economic Phase as a turn in both cases.
 
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Chris Berger
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I think that the economic phase is not supposed to count as a turn - it represents the military-industrial complex output during your last 3 turns worth of time.
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David Valenze
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arkayn wrote:

I think that the economic phase is not supposed to count as a turn - it represents the military-industrial complex output during your last 3 turns worth of time.


I agree with this interpretation.
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Jim Krohn
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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cedric18 wrote:
arkayn wrote:

I think that the economic phase is not supposed to count as a turn - it represents the military-industrial complex output during your last 3 turns worth of time.


I agree with this interpretation.


That's correct.
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Cracky McCracken
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Quote:
For upgrades I have been counting the economic turn as a turn, so if I move my ships to a shipyard on turn 3 I can use the economic turn to upgrade, then move again on turn four.


Do you mean Econ Turn 3 to Econ Turn 4? If yes, than i don't think you have to wait that long to upgrade ships.

A ship just has to spend one turn at a shipyard and pay the cost to be upgraded. It's the only time during a turn you can spend CPs in fact. So if you move in on turn1, you can upgrade on turn2, and be on your way in turn3.

If you move a ship into the shipyard in turn3, it's going to have to sit there through the econ phase and than turn1 (to be upgraded) and than be available again in upcoming turn2.

 
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Mark Buetow
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DarkTori wrote:


MS pipelines on the other hand I treat slightly differently. The Economic turn does not count as a turn and they get flipped at the start of turn 1. This way pipeline that move to a planet on turn three do not get the extra 1CP bonus during the economic phase.




This is not right at all. Flipping an MS pipeline has nothing to do with collecting CPs. It only has to do with being able to assist ships moving along the pipeline.

If a colony has a pipeline, regardless of whether it moved in Turn 3 ( or any other turn), the extra CP is gained in the Econ phase.

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