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Subject: If you love old sci-fi books and are cheap (like me), then... rss

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You have to check out this website.

http://arthursbookshelf.com/sci-fi/sf-bookshelf.html

Complete Novels

All Books in English. All FREE

[ePUB] [mobi.zip] and/or [PDF] files for your EReader

Zelazny, Simak, Bester, Pohl, Norton, etc.

GOLDEN!! A lot of these books are out of print.

Home page has Westerns, adventure and other classics...

You can thank me later. Download, quickly. I'm reading these in my kindle, kindle for pc and/or mobipocket reader.

edit - And DICK (how could I forget?)
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Thomas Eager
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ninja I was just thinking about reading the Tarzan books again. Guess I'll have to get a reader now. They are prohibitively expensive in book form. ninja
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Eric Dodd
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As you say, the Dick! The Theodore Sturgeon novels and stories are excellent, too. Thank you!
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I am pretty sure many of these novels are not yet in the Public Domain. Dick died around 1980, so it will be another 20 years at least before his works can be freely distributed.
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Red Wine Pie wrote:
As you say, the Dick! The Theodore Sturgeon novels and stories are excellent, too. Thank you!


I had never heard of him so I'll check it out!
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Flyboy Connor wrote:
I am pretty sure many of these novels are not yet in the Public Domain. Dick died around 1980, so it will be another 20 years at least before his works can be freely distributed.


I just wanted to pass the site along to chit chat sci-fi geeks. Many of them are in the public domain, people can research on their own if they have concerns.
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Are the public domain ones listed? I don't steal.
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riddlen wrote:
Are the public domain ones listed? I don't steal.


I tried finding some Conan books (the Barbarian, not Sir Arthur) but they are in copyright here in the US, however, they aren't in Australia. I was conflicted. It looks like some on that page aren't public domain, at least in the US. soblue
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wysire wrote:
You have to check out this website.

http://arthursbookshelf.com/sci-fi/sf-bookshelf.html

Complete Novels

All Books in English. All FREE

[ePUB] [mobi.zip] and/or [PDF] files for your EReader

Zelazny, Simak, Bester, Pohl, Norton, etc.

GOLDEN!! A lot of these books are out of print.

Home page has Westerns, adventure and other classics...

You can thank me later. Download, quickly. I'm reading these in my kindle, kindle for pc and/or mobipocket reader.

edit - And DICK (how could I forget?)


Where's Chapel? He needs to see this thread!
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EgorjLileli wrote:
Where's Chapel? He needs to see this thread!


Is he the only SciFi reader on chit chat?!
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hamzy wrote:
EgorjLileli wrote:
Where's Chapel? He needs to see this thread!


Is he the only SciFi reader on chit chat?!


No, Hamzy, but one of the most vocal!

//soothing voice

Don't feel left out!!! (again)

//regular voice
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wysire wrote:
Flyboy Connor wrote:
I am pretty sure many of these novels are not yet in the Public Domain. Dick died around 1980, so it will be another 20 years at least before his works can be freely distributed.


I just wanted to pass the site along to chit chat sci-fi geeks. Many of them are in the public domain, people can research on their own if they have concerns.


I'm not sure I would say 'many'. I had a quick look and it seems that the majority of them aren't public domain. There is stuff there which has been published in the last decade - so it is definitely a place that will get shut down.

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hamzy wrote:
EgorjLileli wrote:
Where's Chapel? He needs to see this thread!


Is he the only SciFi reader on chit chat?!


Plus I'm a pirate. All media is free. devil
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riddlen wrote:
Are the public domain ones listed? I don't steal.

These statements always make me laugh.

Reading a copy that cost no one anything of a text that was written by a guy that died 20+ years ago. Heartless!! [eyeroll emoticon]
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BoB3K wrote:
riddlen wrote:
Are the public domain ones listed? I don't steal.

These statements always make me laugh.

Reading a copy that cost no one anything of a text that was written by a guy that died 20+ years ago. Heartless!! [eyeroll emoticon]


rationalizing it doesnt make it right. Maybe its more akin to stealing a pack of bubble gum then a car, but you not thinking it hurts anyone doesnt make it not stealing.
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BoB3K wrote:
riddlen wrote:
Are the public domain ones listed? I don't steal.

These statements always make me laugh.

Reading a copy that cost no one anything of a text that was written by a guy that died 20+ years ago. Heartless!! [eyeroll emoticon]


Likely spoken as someone who has never owned a copyright or a patent.

Actually, there are laws in the US regarding copyrights. Laws, not suggestions. The estate has retained control as is their right. Stealing is stealing.
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These are public domain stories where the copyright has passed to some long gone magazine or magazine editor. You can find these on Project Gutenberg.

For example, here's Philip K. Dick on PG:

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/search.html/?default_prefix=...

You own these stories. Don't let propaganda train you to think otherwise.
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Orangemoose wrote:
BoB3K wrote:
riddlen wrote:
Are the public domain ones listed? I don't steal.

These statements always make me laugh.

Reading a copy that cost no one anything of a text that was written by a guy that died 20+ years ago. Heartless!! [eyeroll emoticon]


Likely spoken as someone who has never owned a copyright or a patent.

Actually, there are laws in the US regarding copyrights. Laws, not suggestions. The estate has retained control as is their right. Stealing is stealing.

Actually, legally, it's NOT STEALING AT ALL. It's copyright infringement. But I'm not talking laws. I'm talking morals. The guy has been dead for 20+ years. What exactly are you taking from him?
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andyl wrote:
wysire wrote:
Flyboy Connor wrote:
I am pretty sure many of these novels are not yet in the Public Domain. Dick died around 1980, so it will be another 20 years at least before his works can be freely distributed.


I just wanted to pass the site along to chit chat sci-fi geeks. Many of them are in the public domain, people can research on their own if they have concerns.


I'm not sure I would say 'many'. I had a quick look and it seems that the majority of them aren't public domain. There is stuff there which has been published in the last decade - so it is definitely a place that will get shut down.


I'm not so sure. I just checked the Baen books from that site, which are mostly (possibly all) within the last few decades. However, all the Baen books from that site are on the Baen Free Library, which are books that the publisher Baen gives away, for free, with the consent of the authors. They don't list any Baen books that are not in the free library.

Baen was the first publisher to try to gather serious data about the cost to publishers of free books. (To the best of my knowledge, they are still the only one to have done so.) None of their ebooks have DRM, and they've given away many of their best sellers. They claim giving away books has boosted the sales of the authors involved. Is that really so surprising? I find an author I like and then read everything I can by that author. I think many readers do something similar.

Some posters are attempting to justify taking what they can get away with taking. These books are intellectual property. Someone worked hard to create them. You shouldn't take what is not given by the owner of that property. This is immoral, even if you really want to do it, and even if you can play semantic games to not use the word "steal."

However, not all authors pursue the same business model. Some authors would even prefer wide distribution for some/all of their work, even if it means less money for them. Some publishers really do love the works they publish, and pursue different business models and/or philosophies than other, more vocal, publishers. I've only checked Baen books on the website referenced by the OP, but given that the books I checked really are freely distributed by the rightful owners, and the non-free books by the same Baen authors are not listed, even though Baen makes these works available DRM free, I'm optimistic that the site is legitimate.

I suspect we'll see a lot more legitimately reduced priced and/or free books. Some authors have already opted to publish directly through Amazon at prices well below those of paperback books.
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lewis wrote:
I'm not so sure. I just checked the Baen books from that site, which are mostly (possibly all) within the last few decades. However, all the Baen books from that site are on the Baen Free Library, which are books that the publisher Baen gives away, for free, with the consent of the authors. They don't list any Baen books that are not in the free library.

Oh noes, it is possible to download something without stealing! My world is shattered!
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tscook wrote:
Intellectual property is theft.

Exactly. Now, did you pay Jorg Florgenson the creator of the term Intellectual Property for the use of his IP?
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sbszine wrote:
These are public domain stories where the copyright has passed to some long gone magazine or magazine editor. You can find these on Project Gutenberg.

For example, here's Philip K. Dick on PG:

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/search.html/?default_prefix=...

You own these stories. Don't let propaganda train you to think otherwise.

Roger Zelazny's books aren't in Project Gutenburg, though some of his works I've seen for download elsewhere (old magazine stories), so the Amber books are the property of someone. His is one series I've been really looking to read, and I've been kicking myself for not picking up a used copy of Princes of Amber months ago when I found it.

I think most copyright is ridiculous and appreciate artists that give their work away, however, reality is that copyright laws exist. Boy, do they need changing.

edit to add: some of those books may be lapsed in copyright outside the US, as Project Gutenberg only carries books lapsed in where I'm posting from... which goes back to my earlier comment in the thread.
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lewis wrote:
andyl wrote:
wysire wrote:
Flyboy Connor wrote:
I am pretty sure many of these novels are not yet in the Public Domain. Dick died around 1980, so it will be another 20 years at least before his works can be freely distributed.


I just wanted to pass the site along to chit chat sci-fi geeks. Many of them are in the public domain, people can research on their own if they have concerns.


I'm not sure I would say 'many'. I had a quick look and it seems that the majority of them aren't public domain. There is stuff there which has been published in the last decade - so it is definitely a place that will get shut down.


I'm not so sure. I just checked the Baen books from that site, which are mostly (possibly all) within the last few decades. However, all the Baen books from that site are on the Baen Free Library, which are books that the publisher Baen gives away, for free, with the consent of the authors. They don't list any Baen books that are not in the free library.

Baen was the first publisher to try to gather serious data about the cost to publishers of free books. (To the best of my knowledge, they are still the only one to have done so.) None of their ebooks have DRM, and they've given away many of their best sellers. They claim giving away books has boosted the sales of the authors involved. Is that really so surprising?


Yep the Baen free library ones are all OK. Also it isn't surprising that it boosts sales of other titles. That has been the case for Charlie Stross and Cory Doctorow and others.

Quote:
I've only checked Baen books on the website referenced by the OP, but given that the books I checked really are freely distributed by the rightful owners, and the non-free books by the same Baen authors are not listed, even though Baen makes these works available DRM free, I'm optimistic that the site is legitimate.


You are far more optimistic (trusting) than me.

Some of what is non-Baen is perfectly OK. George Griffith died in 1906 and is out of copyright everywhere. Stuff like very early Astounding magazines are out of copyright in the US. I suspect that a lot of the older writers like Otis Adelbert Kline are out of copyright in the US (but not in the UK).

However if you dig around you will see there are pages for writers such as Brunner, Wyndham, Dick, Sturgeon, Zelazny and Pohl. The Fred Pohl (who is still alive) page includes work from as recently as 1999 (so definitely not out of copyright anywhere). The guy also has some pages where he says "This page has been shut down because of a copyright claim." So it looks like he is putting stuff up without regard to copyright and then taking it down when someone complains.
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andyl wrote:
However if you dig around you will see there are pages for writers such as Brunner, Wyndham, Dick, Sturgeon, Zelazny and Pohl. The Fred Pohl (who is still alive) page includes work from as recently as 1999 (so definitely not out of copyright anywhere).


Some books in copyright are still legally available for free.

I think I didn't make my point about the Baen books clear. Many of those are more recent than 1999. They are still in copyright. It's just that the copyright holders have given express permission that anyone can download and read these works for free. If it's true in this case, why not others?

It's not blind altruism. Baen has increased its profits while giving books away. Copyrights last much longer than the period of time most books can command high prices at volume. Look at movies, where one expects the latest blockbuster release to be in a dollar theater within months. Heck, look at books, where we expect to find the latest releases in our local library within months.

It's telling that the site does not include Baen books which aren't in the Free Library, which would be very easy to include. For example, I've checked books out of my local library that came with an attached CD, from Baen, with 100's of ebooks, DRM free, with a note suggesting I download and read them. Among other books, this included the complete Honor Harrington series (most, if not all, were NY Times best sellers). It included many books not in the free library.

andyl wrote:
The guy also has some pages where he says "This page has been shut down because of a copyright claim." So it looks like he is putting stuff up without regard to copyright and then taking it down when someone complains.


Another possibility is that the site is attempting to only list legal works. Then, they either made a mistake or the copyright holder changed his mind. That happens. Writers and publishers have experimented with making certain works free, then changed back, for many reasons. It wouldn't surprise me if there are sites that let you legally read material for free if and only if you register with them; that's what many newspapers do online.

I see a public spirited site that has aggregated freely available works. You've accused them of misdeeds without naming a single work that is improperly listed. The burden of proof is on you. Noting there are works still in copyright isn't good enough. I've given examples of works in copyright that are, nonetheless, legally available for free download.

I understand there is a subculture of piracy. It's quite large and vocal in some areas, e.g. music. I don't respect those who take what they feel they can get away with taking, then spout self righteous justifications for their actions. (I prefer an honest thief.) That doesn't give you cause to assume every library is a really a pirates' cove.

-------

As an aside, Baen isn't the only publisher that has experimented with making many books free and/or tried pricing models radically different from the standard we've grown used to. Note that the modern price of paperback books is an aberration. Pulp novels with prices low enough that a kid could reasonably buy it at a convenience store with his candy bar used to be common. There is no good reason that can't happen again as we leave an era where middlemen find it advantageous to enforce high price barriers.
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