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Combat Commander: Mediterranean» Forums » General

Subject: Is it just me or...? rss

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René Christensen
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Is it just me or is CC:M (2007) a poor quality than CC:E (second printing 2008)?
The aid cards are printed on thinner cardboard and even the rulebook are printed on thinner paper.
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Stacey Hager
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It is. Pacific and the 2nd printing of Europe were produced with much higher quality. Sturdier rule/play books, better cardstock for the fate decks. My Brit counters in Med were even printed off-center.

I will most certainly double dip if a 2nd printing of Med ever happens, that is of course if it matches the standards of the aforementioned games.
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William Garramone
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Yes it is. I wouldn't even take the Fate cards for Med out of their packages until I had card protectors. And then it was immediately into card sleeves before I even LOOKED at the cards.
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Piero
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It is somewhat unrelated but the same goes for the first (and as for now only) printing of Fighting Formations: Grossdeutschland Motorized Infantry Division. Wasn't impressed with the quality at all.
 
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Mark Buetow
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I never noticed anything. I'm always too busy PLAYING the game.
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Bryan Martin
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Gorgoneion wrote:
It is somewhat unrelated but the same goes for the first (and as for now only) printing of Fighting Formations: Grossdeutschland Motorized Infantry Division. Wasn't impressed with the quality at all.


I have no complaints with the quality of Fighting Formations. I thought it was up to GMT's usual high quality. I also like the card thickness of CC:M. They feel like real playing cards, and are easy to shuffle. The cards that come with Europe & Pacific seem to be much thicker than they need to be. Makes shuffling a pain. I would love to be able to upgrade my Pacific and Europe cards to Mediterranean quality.
 
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Stacey Hager
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They may be easier to shuffle, but they are way more fragile. Without sleeves, I shudder to think how long they would last. If your cards wear out, then you are out a whole game.

 
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Matthew Emch
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Stacey, at the rate that you actually get this game on the table, sleeving your cards is a bit like wearing a sleeve on the off chance you MIGHT see some action whilst attending a funeral.
snore
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Chick Lewis
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What Malacandra said.
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Bryan Martin
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shager wrote:
They may be easier to shuffle, but they are way more fragile. Without sleeves, I shudder to think how long they would last. If your cards wear out, then you are out a whole game.



I've had decks of playing cards last for decades, so I'm not too worried.
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Piero
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Malacandra wrote:
I never noticed anything. I'm always too busy PLAYING the game.

Tell us the truth, you work for GMT, right?

I wasn't impressed because I was stunned by other products such as CC:E which I think is at the apex of game production values I ever seen in a wargame. It makes me want to play even if the gameplay was shit.

That is why I was disappointed with FF, even if is a great game.
 
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Mark Buetow
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Gorgoneion wrote:
Malacandra wrote:
I never noticed anything. I'm always too busy PLAYING the game.

Tell us the truth, you work for GMT, right?

I wasn't impressed because I was stunned by other products such as CC:E which I think is at the apex of game production values I ever seen in a wargame. It makes me want to play even if the gameplay was shit.

That is why I was disappointed with FF, even if is a great game.


I honestly don't think there's a thing wrong with FF's components. I even got one of the marked "dead spider" cards and in all the games we've played, we've only noticed it, oh, about...ZERO times.

My CC cards are the stiffer ones and, personally, I prefer the older CC:E ones. But they do work better for flinging across the table when you lose a melee and have to attack your opponent for real.
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Piero
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It is a question of first impressions then, I guess.

Noprob with that, GMT I love you all the same!
 
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Ken Thibodeau
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Malacandra wrote:

My CC cards are the stiffer ones and, personally, I prefer the older CC:E ones. But they do work better for flinging across the table when you lose a melee and have to attack your opponent for real.


lol
 
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Jim F
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Gorgoneion wrote:
It is somewhat unrelated but the same goes for the first (and as for now only) printing of Fighting Formations: Grossdeutschland Motorized Infantry Division. Wasn't impressed with the quality at all.


A couple of my maps that have just been looked at have tiny tears in them. Not a biggie just not very impressive. I've no beef with GMT because they have excellent customer service. If I played the game more often I might ask for replacements.
 
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Simone dalla Chiesa
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Malacandra wrote:
My CC cards are the stiffer ones and, personally, I prefer the older CC:E ones. But they do work better for flinging across the table when you lose a melee and have to attack your opponent for real.


I do that all the time. That's why I sharpen them edges. Ask my opponents (the suvivors, anyway).
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Joe C Faust
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The cards in my copy of Up Front are faded and worn from two decades of use and I love it that way. It reminds me how much I love the game. And it's not going to bother me at all that the cards for my new favorite game system wear and tear as the plays accumulate.
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Andrew Laws
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Malacandra wrote:
I honestly don't think there's a thing wrong with FF's components. I even got one of the marked "dead spider" cards


I'm not observant enough to spot differences in cardstock and suchlike and am usually too busy cursing the Gods of Order Distribution, but from a purely logical point of view how can you claim there's nothing wrong with FF components and then in the next sentence explain that you received one of the marked cards?

A marked card being something wrong with the components, surely?

 
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Russ Williams
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HarlemMimeSchool wrote:
from a purely logical point of view how can you claim there's nothing wrong with FF components and then in the next sentence explain that you received one of the marked cards?

A marked card being something wrong with the components, surely?

If you don't notice the difference, then practically speaking it's not wrong.

I.e. in every game with cards, all card backs are marked/distinguishable if you look closely enough, but you normally wouldn't say they are wrong as a result. I.e. it's a continuum. Card backs are not either "all identical" or "all easily distinguishable".

FWIW I've played a half dozen times and I also haven't noticed the defective card back during play.
 
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Andrew Laws
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russ wrote:

If you don't notice the difference, then practically speaking it's not wrong.

I.e. in every game with cards, all card backs are marked/distinguishable if you look closely enough, but you normally wouldn't say they are wrong as a result. I.e. it's a continuum. Card backs are not either "all identical" or "all easily distinguishable".

FWIW I've played a half dozen times and I also haven't noticed the defective card back during play.


I have a feeling we're teetering on the edge of a BGG 'pedantry precipice' so I will try and tread verrrrrrry carefully but surely if it wasn't designed and was a printer error that led to marked cards then it's still an error?

I should caveat this with the required 'I love GMT, they are my favourite game manufacturer, CC is my favourite game, everyone chillout before we have a flame war, I should have known better etc.'

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Russ Williams
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HarlemMimeSchool wrote:
I have a feeling we're teetering on the edge of a BGG 'pedantry precipice'

Heh!
I'm amazed that google finds no results for "pedantry precipice". I like that expression!

Quote:
so I will try and tread verrrrrrry carefully but surely if it wasn't designed and was a printer error that led to marked cards then it's still an error?

Agreed.

But technically all card backs in all games have printing errors - it's just a question of how noticeable they are, which is a subjective continuum kind of thing. So in the context of card backs, printing errors may not be worth talking about.
 
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Andrew Laws
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russ wrote:

Quote:
so I will try and tread verrrrrrry carefully but surely if it wasn't designed and was a printer error that led to marked cards then it's still an error?

Agreed.

But technically all card backs in all games have printing errors - it's just a question of how noticeable they are, which is a subjective continuum kind of thing. So in the context of card backs, printing errors may not be worth talking about.


Ok lovely, well explained, case closed.
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Freddy Dekker
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Quote:

A couple of my maps that have just been looked at have tiny tears in them.


Well, that explains it.
They're not made to just be looked at.

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Freddy Dekker
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russ wrote:
If you don't notice the difference, then practically speaking it's not wrong.
.


So this is like the tree thing?
If a tree falls in the woods and no one sees it fall, it hasn't?

If you've lost your trailer with all you CC games in it, but you haven't notice, you have not lost it?

So if I wrote this reply, but you have not read it, I have not written it.shake
Oh dear, I'm starting to confuse myself now....
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I've been playing wargames for nearly forty years and was blown away by the incredibly high quality of cc:e. As a gun owner, I told my wife I couldn't relate to people bewitched by the beauty of their weapons, but when I saw cc:e I told her I could see how someone could truly love the fine care and craftsmanship put into most any product.

I was consequently majorly bummed by the quality of the cards in cc:m, as well as the box itself and a few other components. Sleeved, the cards make a pile less than 2/3 that of cc:e. I would hope GMT would offer an upgraded replacement deck from their website, but I haven't seen one offered so far.
 
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