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Subject: Re-Settling rss

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Mike Clarke
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It's clear from the rules you can settle a location even though it already has a cube in order to re-secure its location card after you've culled it.

BUT...can you settle a location when you have both its cube and location card, just to cycle cards out of your hand? in other words can I go from say Trois Rivieres to Fort St John via bateaux again even though it's already been settled and I still have its location card?

This came up in a game last night.
 
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Ryan Metzler
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mikecl wrote:
It's clear from the rules you can settle a location even though it already has a cube in order to re-secure its location card after you've culled it.

BUT...can you settle a location when you have both its cube and location card, just to cycle cards out of your hand? in other words can I go from say Trois Rivieres to Fort St John via bateaux again even though it's already been settled and I still have its location card?

This came up in a game last night.


No
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Mike Clarke
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Thanks Ryan. Didn't think so, but the argument was made and I couldn't find anything to gainsay it. It makes sense you wouldn't be able to do it though. Otherwise there's just too many crazy and unthematic options for cycling your deck.
 
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Chuck Parrott
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That would be getting around the discard action in a way that I don't think was intended.
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Reinhard Mueller
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mikecl wrote:
It's clear from the rules you can settle a location even though it already has a cube in order to re-secure its location card after you've culled it.


That's not clear at all.

1. You can only settle on a neutral location:

"This action allows you to place one of your cubes in a neutral
location (one that does not already contain a cube or disc)"

2. "To regain a location card you would have to ‘settle’ the location
again, including the playing of a settler symbol card if necessary."

I cannot see that rule 2 invalidates rule 1: You'd have to wait for the location to be neutral again (through enemy raid or siege) to be able to resettle and regain the location card.

Or am I missing something?
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Mike Clarke
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etagimbo wrote:
mikecl wrote:
It's clear from the rules you can settle a location even though it already has a cube in order to re-secure its location card after you've culled it.


That's not clear at all.

1. You can only settle on a neutral location:

"This action allows you to place one of your cubes in a neutral
location (one that does not already contain a cube or disc)"

2. "To regain a location card you would have to ‘settle’ the location
again, including the playing of a settler symbol card if necessary."

I cannot see that rule 2 invalidates rule 1: You'd have to wait for the location to be neutral again (through enemy raid or siege) to be able to resettle and regain the location card.


Well then there's cause for further discussion although I would point out why have Rule 2 at all because with this interpretation Rule 1 is all you really need. But context is everything. Rule 2 is under rules for "the Governor." And it's talking about his ability to remove cards including location cards back to stock.

And it says to regain them you have to "settle" the location again and it puts "settle" in quotes just like you might do with your two fingers when you're indicating it's not really a normal "settle."

If you lose the location, well yes you can retake it but that's already covered under the normal rules. But if you remove the card with the Governor, the rule is saying, don't worry you can get it back by performing in essence a fake settle.
It's clear enough to me.
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TS S. Fulk
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Very clear to me, too. I never thought twice about it. Play the cards you need to "settle" it and get the location card back.

mikecl wrote:
etagimbo wrote:
mikecl wrote:
It's clear from the rules you can settle a location even though it already has a cube in order to re-secure its location card after you've culled it.


That's not clear at all.

1. You can only settle on a neutral location:

"This action allows you to place one of your cubes in a neutral
location (one that does not already contain a cube or disc)"

2. "To regain a location card you would have to ‘settle’ the location
again, including the playing of a settler symbol card if necessary."

I cannot see that rule 2 invalidates rule 1: You'd have to wait for the location to be neutral again (through enemy raid or siege) to be able to resettle and regain the location card.


Well then there's cause for further discussion although I would point out why have Rule 2 at all because with this interpretation Rule 1 is all you really need. But context is everything. Rule 2 is under rules for "the Governor." And it's talking about his ability to remove cards including location cards back to stock.

And it says to regain them you have to "settle" the location again and it puts "settle" in quotes just like you might do with your two fingers when you're indicating it's not really a normal "settle."

If you lose the location, well yes you can retake it but that's already covered under the normal rules. But if you remove the card with the Governor, the rule is saying, don't worry you can get it back by performing in essence a fake settle.
It's clear enough to me.
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Reinhard Mueller
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mikecl wrote:

Well then there's cause for further discussion although I would point out why have Rule 2 at all because with this interpretation Rule 1 is all you really need. But context is everything. Rule 2 is under rules for "the Governor." And it's talking about his ability to remove cards including location cards back to stock.

And it says to regain them you have to "settle" the location again and it puts "settle" in quotes just like you might do with your two fingers when you're indicating it's not really a normal "settle."

If you lose the location, well yes you can retake it but that's already covered under the normal rules. But if you remove the card with the Governor, the rule is saying, don't worry you can get it back by performing in essence a fake settle.
It's clear enough to me.


Yes, context is everything and the context is the whole rule book. There is a limited set of action one can take and they are all clearly defined. And suddenly a new kind of action ("settle with quotes") is introduced in a half-sentence? Who decides which parts of the settle action apply to the "settle in quotes" action and which don't?
Maybe it's a obsession of wargamers to interpret rules 100% literally without any room for interpretation (for example what quotes might mean). But who knows (MW?) you may be right as well. ;)
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Reinhard Mueller
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Ok, it's in the FAQs, you are right! But still I don't think it's "clear" from the rules. The proof: It's a frequently asked question! ;)

Q: If I have returned a location card to my available location cards using the
Governor, but later decide I want it back, how can I do this without losing
the location?

A: You can resettle the location, as usual, despite it already being settled,
and gain the location card as usual.
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TS S. Fulk
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etagimbo wrote:

Maybe it's a obsession of wargamers to interpret rules 100% literally without any room for interpretation (for example what quotes might mean). But who knows (MW?) you may be right as well.


Interesting. Not being a wargamer or even knowing any, I did not know this.

Maybe it's an obsession of RPGers (my 1st gaming background) to interpret rules on the fly and make up things as they go to keep the story flowing, rather than looking things up in a 200+ paged rulebook.
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Severus Snape
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Maybe it's a obsession of wargamers to interpret rules 100% literally without any room for interpretation (for example what quotes might mean). But who knows (MW?) you may be right as well.


Silly behaviour is never limited to wargamers; even the odd Eurogamer has been known to be silly. Or so I have heard. But then I am a wargamer. Or so I have been told. But only behind my back.

goo

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Christopher Dearlove
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etagimbo wrote:
mikecl wrote:
It's clear from the rules you can settle a location even though it already has a cube in order to re-secure its location card after you've culled it.


That's not clear at all.


Agreed it's not really clear, though possibly implied.

Edit: by "not really clear" I meant something slightly more than "not crystal clear". I didn't mean totally unclear. But clarification was good.

Quote:
Or am I missing something?


That Martin has said you can.
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Mike Clarke
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Dearlove wrote:
etagimbo wrote:
mikecl wrote:
It's clear from the rules you can settle a location even though it already has a cube in order to re-secure its location card after you've culled it.


That's not clear at all.


Agreed it's not really clear, though possibly implied.

Quote:
Or am I missing something?


That Martin has said you can.

It was clear to me for the reasons I've outlined...context, italics, the right to bring back a card you've Governored away. If we can't apply deductive reasoning, we'd have a helluva time deciphering a LOT of games. But what wasn't clear to me and now is, is the initial question, that launched this thread.
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Dan Moore
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bentlarsen wrote:
Quote:
Maybe it's a obsession of wargamers to interpret rules 100% literally without any room for interpretation (for example what quotes might mean). But who knows (MW?) you may be right as well.


Silly behaviour is never limited to wargamers; even the odd Eurogamer has been known to be silly. Or so I have heard. But then I am a wargamer. Or so I have been told. But only behind my back.

goo



He's such a Wargamer . . . Oh! Severus, good to see you, was just talking about you!
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Reinhard Mueller
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bentlarsen wrote:
Quote:
Maybe it's a obsession of wargamers to interpret rules 100% literally without any room for interpretation (for example what quotes might mean). But who knows (MW?) you may be right as well. ;)


Silly behaviour is never limited to wargamers; even the odd Eurogamer has been known to be silly. Or so I have heard. But then I am a wargamer. Or so I have been told. But only behind my back.

:goo:


This is my credo when interpreting wargame rules (from Totaler Krieg rulebook, qouted in the CC rulebook):

“Do not infer or imagine more to a rule than is stated in it. When in doubt, interpret strictly”.

The whole confusion stems from the fact that is not clear to this day whether afaos is a wargame or not. It's a shame that this has not yet been answered in the FAQs. It's one of the most asked question!
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Severus Snape
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Pascal said, "The eternal silence of these infinite spaces terrifies me."
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I suppose I'm now regretting letting go SPI's The Conquerors many moons ago, as using Lost Battles in place of the latter's tactical game would be ideal.


Reinhard, would it help if I, as a wargamer, said that I think A Few Acres of Snow is a great game; it's a keeper. Or does this just muddy the already darkened waters?

goo

 
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