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Subject: Previews #2 rss

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Vince Lupo
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GalaGalaxia wrote:
... or a token/reaction?

Token reaction: perhaps a card that generates a token when you play it. And when you get attacked you can throw out the token to defend.

I'd call them Guards.

The question is, how many tokens can you have out at once? Or should there be a limit?


Perhaps you can only have one token out per Guard card you have bought. So you would grab a token when you buy it. BUT then the system would be that you have to flip your token face up or face down to indicate whether it is guarding at that moment. When it defends, it goes face down until you can play another guard card.


Is the card strong enough? Should it also provide an action and/or a draw and/or a coin when you play it? How much should it cost?
 
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Kevin Hadley

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just played them. Unfortunately didn't get the 4/3 opening. However, tactician was available, and let's just say it got nutty. The fool's golds went like... well $2 golds. Unfortunately, the other player kept turning up VP with his Jester, so I lost due to curses.

I have to say, I like what I am seeing so far.
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Nevin Steindam
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Hmm.. These are both interesting cards, though I have some concerns about both. It'll be interesting to play and see, though.

Nomad Camp: I like the idea of adding more strategy and variety to those first two turns. It seems to me that it also adds more luck, though. Before, the only two possible opening positions were 5-2 and 4-3. Now, there's a distinction between 3-4 and 4-3, as well as between 2-5 and 5-2. To take immediate advantage of the Nomad Camp, you'll need the bigger draw first. Also, after you draw your second hand, you'll have one card left in your draw pile. So if I draw 4 to begin with, and buy a Nomad Camp, then my next hand will be a Nomad Camp plus either 2 or 3 Copper, for a total of 4-5 coins. The 5 is cool, since I just pushed myself up to higher buying power the first time through the deck, but the 4 is disappointing. Since the Nomad Camp effectively turns into a (3-cost) Woodcutter, it's the same end result as if I'd drawn 3-4, and made a probably sub-optimal choice with the 3.

Fool's Gold: I'm looking forward to finding out how this works if you get a chance for lots of small buys. With 3+ Fool's Golds, this is better than Gold... but how often are you going to get at least 3 of the same Treasure card in your hand? That will require lots of deck-thinning or extra draws, and deck-thinning is slow if you're buying lots of cards you want to keep at the same time. Of course, just 2 Fool's Golds are better than 2 Silver, and they still cost less to gain. So maybe this works out at lower concentrations. Just make sure you don't buy it specifically to trade up to Gold: If the Fool's Gold engine is working great, then you won't trade because you'd rather have the FG. If they've just been clogging your deck, then you get to trade up, but you're still way behind the person who just gained a Province!
Remember, every time you draw that newly-obtained Gold with other Fool's Golds, then you'll wish you'd kept it as FG so it would be worth 4.
Putting the Gold on top of your deck sounds nice, but it's replacing a Fool's Gold that had been in your hand, so you're probably delaying that treasure's use by one turn (even if you draw it in the same turn with a +Card action, then you'll still have a net hand size of 1 fewer card). And of course, unless it was the only FG in your hand, you're reducing its value next turn. (I assume if you had multiple FGs in your hand, you could have them all turn into Golds at once. That's a net gain if you have exactly 2 in your hand, but still delays their use by 1. Is it worth trashing 2 cards worth 5 in your current hand, just to get 2 Gold the following hand?)

Edit: I should clarify that I like randomness in Dominion (Treasure Map is a fun card), so I'm not complaining about a card adding randomness when it comes up. I do think this outweighs the strategy of Nomad Camp, though. Either way, I like the idea of adding a new element to those opening turns.
I also like situational cards, rather than ones that are always good or bad, so Fools' Gold sounds good. I'm just pointing out that players will need to identify the right turns to use it, because it sounds often weak. (And when it is strong, such as in a Tactician game, they'll get bought up so quickly that in a 4-player game, no one might get enough to make them powerful.)
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Charles Waterman
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PollutedMonkey wrote:
senseless wrote:
Why the nomads have "on top of your deck" but the fools have "on your deck"?
I was just asked myself that...?!
Polluted Monkey and senseless are thinking about the same things...Sounds like some Poo! will be in the air soon!
 
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Tim Chen
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I have a feeling that IRL Fool's Gold can be too strong... if there is +buy available.

The problem is, hand shuffle is not perfect. Two cards tend to stay together if they are bought together. It is at least hard for one to buy two treasure maps in the same turn...
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Nate S
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My first thought with Nomad Camp was "A top-decked Woodcutter? Yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwn," and then Donald pointed out that it absolutely explodes everything we know about opening strategy and my mind was completely blown. I will say it worries me just a little that there may now be boards where 4/3 is vastly stronger than 3/4, but I'll have to see how it actually plays out.

Fool's Gold has me drooling. In a buy-rich game with the possibility for big hands it might be even better than Bank (currently the undisputed champion of buy-rich big-hand games) owing to its comparable cheapness. And booya! I got my wish of a Treasure/Reaction card!
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Moosey
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I first though a little yawn but a little interesting for Nomad Camp. Then played on isotropic, and it's certainly more interesting.

Fool's gold sounded way buff, then played on isotropic, and it's not overly strong without being able to combo. +buys make it stronger. But deck management (trashing or cycling properly) will make it really strong. So the power of this card really fluctuates. It is still strong. I can't help but think +1$/+3$ might have been more appropriate. But I'm sure it was tested, and the synergy was best this way.

So I guess I had the exact opposite than expected. Underestimated Nomad Camp, overestimated Fool's Gold. (Though best not to underestimate how strong other kingdom cards can make Fool's Gold).
 
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The Compulsive Completist
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Are they releasing only the cards that have been revealed here on Isotropic or the whole bundle? I assume just the cards here but wanted to double check.
 
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The Broox
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Hockey Mask wrote:
Are they releasing only the cards that have been revealed here on Isotropic or the whole bundle? I assume just the cards here but wanted to double check.
As the cards are previewed here they are made available to the public on isotropic.
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Martín Borda
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Council Room + Fool´s Gold...
 
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Josh Biderman
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Beaveman wrote:
I wonder how opening Fool's Gold/Chapel would be. Are there any other decent $2/$2 openings?

Turns 3/4 - buy a second Fool's Gold and trash 3-4 Copper/Estates. Turns 5/6 - buy one or two more Fool's Gold and trash 2-4 more Copper/Estates.

In all successive turns, buy Fool's Gold with < $8 if still available, Gold with $6-7 if there are no more Fool's Gold, and Provinces with $8+.

Seems like it could potentially be faster than Chapel-ing to buy a few Silver and then Gold and Provinces.
What you do to break this (just did it on Iso) is to have a 2/5 opening buying Fool's Gold and Mint. Your deck is now: 3 Copper, 3 Estate, 1 Fools, 1 Mint. Your next two turns are almost guaranteed to get you +3 Fools Gold, as you don't have enough cards for a full second hand so what you discard the first time around gets shuffled back.
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gf1024 wrote:
spongyform wrote:
Thisisnotasmile wrote:
Anyone live near Doug Z and can go around and wake him up?
They were supposed to go up automatically, but I accidentally set the timer to 12:15pm instead of 12:15am. Anyway, they're up now...
Hey Doug,

I'm playing with them right now (thanks for that by the way) and Fool's Gold on isotropic says "when another player buys a Province" while the one posted by Donald says gains. Does it still work correctly on isotropic? If just a typo or an earlier version I don't know, thought I'd let you know.
It does not work properly on isotropic. http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201110/14/game-2011101... test2 was not prompted when the Province was gained.

edit: this occurs more often than you think (other than the rare bridge/feast/fool's gold combo): it happens in any set with remodel/expand and also (to a lesser extent) with horn of plenty

also, the wording on isotropic means that you can trash fg and get a gold even if the province gets traders into a silver
 
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Matthew M
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mborda wrote:
Council Room + Fool´s Gold...
...does something because Fool's Gold is yeah
 
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Nate M
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Octavian wrote:
mborda wrote:
Council Room + Fool´s Gold...
...does nothing because Fool's Gold isn't an Actin card.
No, it will help you draw lots of extra cards which greatly increases your chances of getting many Fool's Gold together.

Or were you thinking of throne room ;-)
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Matthew M
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WallyNate wrote:
Octavian wrote:
mborda wrote:
Council Room + Fool´s Gold...
...does nothing because Fool's Gold isn't an Actin card.
No, it will help you draw lots of extra cards which greatly increases your chances of getting many Fool's Gold together.

Or were you thinking of throne room ;-)
....maybe.... blush
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Mark Judd
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Octavian wrote:
mborda wrote:
Council Room + Fool´s Gold...
...does nothing because Fool's Gold isn't an Actin card.
I think he means play a Council Room and draw multiple Fool's Gold. You can often use the extra buy from Council Room to pick up an additional Fool's Gold, and eventually use the 2 buys from Council Room with several Fool's Gold and a few other regular treasure to buy two Provinces.
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Mark Judd
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NtNScissors wrote:
How does Trader interact with Fool's Gold? I suppose it follows the "player order starting from the player whose turn it is" rule?
...
(3) Player A plays an Ambassador, reveals a Province (but does not return it to the Supply), causing Player B to gain a Province from the supply, Player A trashes a Fool's Gold. Player B can now reveal Trader and gain a Silver instead of a Province, but this does not stop Player A from trashing Fool's Gold and gaining a Gold on the deck?
Nice catch on the Fool's Gold/Trader interaction. And the Fool's Gold/Ambassador interaction is interesting - ignoring the Trader part completely. Ambassadors have been used to give away the last Province to end a match, but could there now be some other times when Ambassador-ing a Province might be beneficial? Possibly if you have extra actions and a card-drawer and could use $3 from a Gold instead of $1 from your lone Fool's Gold?
 
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NtNScissors wrote:
How does Trader interact with Fool's Gold? I suppose it follows the "player order starting from the player whose turn it is" rule?

(1) Player A buys a Province. He reveals a Trader, turns that into a Silver. (I don't know, Hoard in a Colony game, maybe?) Since Player A did not really gain a Province, Player B may not trash Fool's Gold from hand?

(2) Player A buys a Province. He has a Trader in hand, but chooses not to reveal it. Player B trashes 2 Fool's Golds. Player A may not now reveal Trader and gain a Silver instead of a Province?

(3) Player A plays an Ambassador, reveals a Province (but does not return it to the Supply), causing Player B to gain a Province from the supply, Player A trashes a Fool's Gold. Player B can now reveal Trader and gain a Silver instead of a Province, but this does not stop Player A from trashing Fool's Gold and gaining a Gold on the deck?
I think you just need to follow the strict order

"On buy" cards -> "On would gain" cards -> "On gain" cards.

If you're imagining this as an invocation stack, each of "on buy" and "on gain" cards can only be played after the buy/gain on the top of the stack has resolved. "On would gain" is special because it can be played on top of a gain before it is resolved on the stack.

(1) Yes.
(2) Well, did he gain the province? I'd argue if he moved a province from the supply to his discard, he has gained it and can no longer play 'on would gain' cards. If the other player jumps the gun and starts revealing Fool's Gold as soon as the first player says "I buy a province", then the first player can still do whatever, because he hasn't gained the province yet.
(3) No. There has never been a "gain province" event that has been fully resolved, so the target of your Fool's Gold is non-existent.

edit: Note that Watchtower is an "on gain" event, which means that it triggers after a "gain" event has fully been resolved. If your opponent uses a Watchtower as opposed to a Trader, then you can still use Fool's Gold (because the Province was gained, but just trashed immediately afterwards).
 
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Josh Biderman
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MooseyFate wrote:
I first though a little yawn but a little interesting for Nomad Camp. Then played on isotropic, and it's certainly more interesting.

Fool's gold sounded way buff, then played on isotropic, and it's not overly strong without being able to combo. +buys make it stronger. But deck management (trashing or cycling properly) will make it really strong. So the power of this card really fluctuates. It is still strong. I can't help but think +1$/+3$ might have been more appropriate. But I'm sure it was tested, and the synergy was best this way.

So I guess I had the exact opposite than expected. Underestimated Nomad Camp, overestimated Fool's Gold. (Though best not to underestimate how strong other kingdom cards can make Fool's Gold).
If Fool's Gold was 1/3 I wouldn't buy it. IMO, the attraction of the card is the fact that 2 of them hit 5. If two of them only hits 4, its a highly conditional Silver for 1 less. I think this card over all is not that great, unless you can seriously abuse it, your better off with a Silver. The best way to abuse it that I have tried is Mint, though I'm interested in seeing the card with Salvager.

Nomad Camp is great early acceleration, but very hard to sustain.
 
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Moosey
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I agree. I played more and 1/4 is good. Sometimes to little, which fit's the "Fool's" theme quite well when you try to pull it off and it doesn't work. It's a little strong, but 1/3 would be not enough.

EDIT: Reminds me of a custom card I made. Started at 1/4, but then balancing I changed it to 2/3 because it was so spiky. But, given how spiky Fool's Gold is, it's making me reconsider that re-balancing.

I usually buy Woodcutters late. I know, it's kinda dumb. But I'll have the money for double buys late, and will take up my one action in an early game, so I'd rather have silver. But of course, this is all situation. By late game I buy a Woodcutter, but by the time it cycles, I don't always need it. So Nomad Camp is great for getting late game so you can reap the rewards right away in a desperate lunge for those last few victory points.
 
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Josh Biderman
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MooseyFate wrote:
I agree. I played more and 1/4 is good. Sometimes to little, which fit's the "Fool's" theme quite well when you try to pull it off and it doesn't work. It's a little strong, but 1/3 would be not enough.

I usually buy Woodcutters late. I know, it's kinda dumb. But I'll have the money for double buys late, and will take up my one action in an early game, so I'd rather have silver. But of course, this is all situation. By late game I buy a Woodcutter, but by the time it cycles, I don't always need it. So Nomad Camp is great for getting late game so you can reap the rewards right away in a desperate lunge for those last few victory points.
That's a good point about Nomad Camp, late game if you hit 4, Camp guarantees you an extra Estate, at the worst. At the best, the extra 2 could give you your last Provence
 
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Derek Whaley
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Any way we can get a high-res copy of the new icon? It looks like a bridled horse but I can't quite tell because the card images are slightly too small to enlarge properly. I'd love the image also for use in my next rules edition which is in the works.
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Nate S
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Minor thing, it just occurred to me that Fool's Gold is the first reaction card that reacts by a mechanism other than "revealing". I've said it before when people poo-poo Reaction ideas that have to be once-only: there's nothing inherent about Reactions that says you can do them as many times as you want when the event you're reacting to happens!

I have a very short memory!
 
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Robert Crawford
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Awesome, thanks Donald!

I wonder how we'll rework out house rule to work with Nomad Camp... we've been playing that you can choose your opening split; whether you want 3/4 or 2/5. But when we play this, we don't even shuffle our initial deck or draw our initial hands. So with Nomad Camp... maybe you are allowed to choose Nomad Camp first, and then up to a 5-cost card second... but if you do, you have to start your third hand with an estate (because that's what would happen if you actually drew Nomad Camp + 3 copper in your second hand)?
 
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Matt E
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ghorsche wrote:
Minor thing, it just occurred to me that Fool's Gold is the first reaction card that reacts by a mechanism other than "revealing".
No, Horse Traders was the first such card.
 
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