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A Few Acres of Snow» Forums » Variants

Subject: Seriously considered options rss

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Eugene
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clydeiii wrote:
Ideally we'll have one rule change that is easy to remember, intuitive, minimal, and historic/thematic.
From the publisher's standpoint, that's certainly ideal. I'm now of a mind that a fix should not be discarded out of hand simply because it would be more difficult to implement for the whole of those who bought and will buy the game. A good-enough fix is fine for that group. If serious players care to incorporate another, more involved, yet superior fix, I say have at it. It's our game now.
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Robert Buccheri
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My only suggestion at this time as a variant is:

If a player can't draw a card when he is suppose to, due to an overly thinned deck then that player loses the game to bankruptcy/revolution. This applies to Home Support as well.

This will stop over abuse of a game mechanic and makes game sense. Countries didn't simple attack because they could. Wars cost money and lives and Countries needed the support of it's people behind the cause.

I've managed to create this hyper aggressive action / reaction game situation that I find may favor the French in the end. So far English has won, but I'm finding a new a approach for France each time that holds a considerable threat. More plays are needed.
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Mike Clarke
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Bobby Tweaks wrote:
My only suggestion at this time as a variant is:

If a player can't draw a card when he is suppose to, due to an overly thinned deck then that player loses the game to bankruptcy/revolution. This applies to Home Support as well.
That doesn't work. There are many times even a large deck runs out during a draw. That's just a function of going through it. I suppose you could say you can't draw cards until your next turn. That might encourage players to perhaps keep Home Support as a way of trying to time out the deck.

More likely though you'll randomly ruin a player's game for no apparent reason other than he just happened to get caught short.
 
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Robert Buccheri
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mikecl wrote:
Bobby Tweaks wrote:
My only suggestion at this time as a variant is:

If a player can't draw a card when he is suppose to, due to an overly thinned deck then that player loses the game to bankruptcy/revolution. This applies to Home Support as well.
That doesn't work. There are many times even a large deck runs out during a draw. That's just a function of going through it. I suppose you could say you can't draw cards until your next turn. That might encourage players to perhaps keep Home Support as a way of trying to time out the deck.

More likely though you'll randomly ruin a player's game for no apparent reason other than he just happened to get caught short.

I think you are misunderstanding what the variant suggests. The only time a player can't draw is when his discard is completely empty. This is a controlled element of the game. If I'm in a siege and I have cards tied up, I may have to withdrawal from the siege to keep from over extending my resources. To me this makes game sense and a player will not be able to abuse certain game mechanics. I find it completely reasonable.
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Christopher Dearlove
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I had two relevant conversations at Essen. One was with one of the playtesters. I'm not naming him because I may not be reporting his views precisely. He's definitely of the opinion that the French can do more than proponents of the Halifax attack have so far considered. And beat someone who turned up at Essen to execute it against him. Of course even if true that an expert French player can achieve a win, the difficulty of achieving this may make it insufficient.

Incidentally I demoed the game somewhere between eight to ten times on the Saturday at Essen, from ten to seven with just one quick loo break. I did so by means of showing, with open cards, how a game might start. Not a well-played game (as I explained) but one designed to show off most of the actions (and then adding the others after the end - usually at the first point a siege finished). But I tended to start a siege of Pemaquid at about turn three - because I needed to show one as soon as possible. While what I did was by no means relevant to the main topic, an early French siege (probably of Halifax rather than Pemaquid) is a part of a French response, if only to buy time.

I did have a conversation with Martin (over breakfast one day) about the list of options that's at the top of this thread. Most got rapidly rejected on one of the bases of complexity (it's not just wargamers who play the game), that it's broken (there are reasons some things are as they are to prevent the French winning too easily), or not historical (Martin cares about that). I think that pruned the list down to four (I think, I need to check) options, plus at least one idea Martin has that no one has suggested. That doesn't mean he thinks those are the right options, just those are worth considering further, the rest not.

But no, I'm not going to list those four. (Though I will tease that I bet no one would guess the list right.) I don't know how Martin plans to proceed, and I'm not going to pre-empt that. Maybe he will post, maybe I will post after discussing with him (and that won't be immediate, he will have post-Essen things to do - and I have things to do as well, though not Essen related), maybe someone else will post. And maybe it will be a final answer (though that will take time) or maybe something more discussive. This may include pointing out French options not just changes, I really don't know, and there's no point asking me, its a combination of "don't know" and "not for me to discuss (or to discuss yet)".

This does mean that I'm not in the collecting options business any more, so the list at the top of this thread won't be changing again (except possible to get a final comment if ever appropriate).
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Andrew E
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Dearlove wrote:
I had two relevant conversations at Essen. One was with one of the playtesters. I'm not naming him because I may not be reporting his views precisely. He's definitely of the opinion that the French can do more than proponents of the Halifax attack have so far considered. And beat someone who turned up at Essen to execute it against him.
Like you, I don't think it's necessarily good enough if this is true, but did you see the game? I'm somewhat interested. Did he do anything unexpected or unusual, like ignore the sieges or beat the British player at his own game or buy both priests or something like that?
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Ken Dilloo
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Thanks for the update Christopher.

For what it is worth, I was able to find a very successful French counter (likely one of many). I don't consider myself an expert player, at all (sure my friends would agree). In fact, I pre-ordered around the time of the albatross thread, and got the game sometime around when it exploded. After posting some sessions, trying to wrap my head around both thin-deck and potential counters, I decided not to post what I had found, with the idea of not trying to wreck this fine game further, for players new and old to the game.

Keep playing, guys.
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Don Smith
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Dearlove wrote:
I had two relevant conversations at Essen. One was with one of the playtesters. I'm not naming him because I may not be reporting his views precisely. He's definitely of the opinion that the French can do more than proponents of the Halifax attack have so far considered. And beat someone who turned up at Essen to execute it against him. Of course even if true that an expert French player can achieve a win, the difficulty of achieving this may make it insufficient.

Incidentally I demoed the game somewhere between eight to ten times on the Saturday at Essen, from ten to seven with just one quick loo break. I did so by means of showing, with open cards, how a game might start. Not a well-played game (as I explained) but one designed to show off most of the actions (and then adding the others after the end - usually at the first point a siege finished). But I tended to start a siege of Pemaquid at about turn three - because I needed to show one as soon as possible. While what I did was by no means relevant to the main topic, an early French siege (probably of Halifax rather than Pemaquid) is a part of a French response, if only to buy time.

I did have a conversation with Martin (over breakfast one day) about the list of options that's at the top of this thread. Most got rapidly rejected on one of the bases of complexity (it's not just wargamers who play the game), that it's broken (there are reasons some things are as they are to prevent the French winning too easily), or not historical (Martin cares about that). I think that pruned the list down to four (I think, I need to check) options, plus at least one idea Martin has that no one has suggested. That doesn't mean he thinks those are the right options, just those are worth considering further, the rest not.

But no, I'm not going to list those four. (Though I will tease that I bet no one would guess the list right.) I don't know how Martin plans to proceed, and I'm not going to pre-empt that. Maybe he will post, maybe I will post after discussing with him (and that won't be immediate, he will have post-Essen things to do - and I have things to do as well, though not Essen related), maybe someone else will post. And maybe it will be a final answer (though that will take time) or maybe something more discussive. This may include pointing out French options not just changes, I really don't know, and there's no point asking me, its a combination of "don't know" and "not for me to discuss (or to discuss yet)".

This does mean that I'm not in the collecting options business any more, so the list at the top of this thread won't be changing again (except possible to get a final comment if ever appropriate).

Thanks, Christopher, for the open and honest update.
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Clyde W
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bigloo33 wrote:
Thanks for the update Christopher.

For what it is worth, I was able to find a very successful French counter (likely one of many). I don't consider myself an expert player, at all (sure my friends would agree). In fact, I pre-ordered around the time of the albatross thread, and got the game sometime around when it exploded. After posting some sessions, trying to wrap my head around both thin-deck and potential counters, I decided not to post what I had found, with the idea of not trying to wreck this fine game further, for players new and old to the game.

Keep playing, guys.
Sweet, I'd love to play sometime on VASSAL with you. I need someone to reignite my love for this game.
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Ken Dilloo
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Been over that already, Clyde. I am of the opinion that if you guys are clever enough to figure out this British gambit, you should be able to find a French counter (take that as compliment). The fun of this game, IMHO, is figuring out these strategies/counter-strategies, on your own.

Happy gaming!!
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bigloo33 wrote:
Thanks for the update Christopher.

For what it is worth, I was able to find a very successful French counter (likely one of many). I don't consider myself an expert player, at all (sure my friends would agree). In fact, I pre-ordered around the time of the albatross thread, and got the game sometime around when it exploded. After posting some sessions, trying to wrap my head around both thin-deck and potential counters, I decided not to post what I had found, with the idea of not trying to wreck this fine game further, for players new and old to the game.

Keep playing, guys.
That's all I need to hear.

Thanks!
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bigloo33 wrote:
For what it is worth, I was able to find a very successful French counter (likely one of many)... I decided not to post what I had found, with the idea of not trying to wreck this fine game further, for players new and old to the game.
Would you consider informing Andrew of your successful French counter through private geekmail, if Andrew agrees to not let the cat out of the bag?
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Clyde W
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bigloo33 wrote:
Been over that already, Clyde. I am of the opinion that if you guys are clever enough to figure out this British gambit, you should be able to find a French counter (take that as compliment). The fun of this game, IMHO, is figuring out these strategies/counter-strategies, on your own.

Happy gaming!!
But I'd love to play against you man. Let's do this thang! Viva la France!

Edit: LEEERROOOOOYYYYYY JANKINS!
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bigloo33 wrote:
I am of the opinion that if you guys are clever enough to figure out this British gambit, you should be able to find a French counter (take that as compliment)
If that's a compliment, I'm the queen of England.
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AndrewE wrote:
bigloo33 wrote:
I am of the opinion that if you guys are clever enough to figure out this British gambit, you should be able to find a French counter (take that as compliment)
If that's a compliment, I'm the queen of England.

Likely just as attractive too....gulp
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AndrewE wrote:
bigloo33 wrote:
I am of the opinion that if you guys are clever enough to figure out this British gambit, you should be able to find a French counter (take that as compliment)
If that's a compliment, I'm the queen of England.
An honor to meet you, Your Majesty.
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Christopher Dearlove
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AndrewE wrote:
did you see the game?

No. I only sat on the stand on the Saturday (plus a bit of set-up help on the Wednesday) and this was Thursday or Friday. Mind you, I didn't see any of the games played on Saturday (when we had two Snow tables) either as running my table took all my time.
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Dearlove wrote:
AndrewE wrote:
did you see the game?

No. I only sat on the stand on the Saturday (plus a bit of set-up help on the Wednesday) and this was Thursday or Friday. Mind you, I didn't see any of the games played on Saturday (when we had two Snow tables) either as running my table took all my time.
Can you ask him what he did?
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Dearlove wrote:
I did have a conversation with Martin (over breakfast one day) about the list of options that's at the top of this thread.
Are you allowed to disclose whether Martin Wallace, when told of the two main Home Support abuses (HS military on the turn it's bought to be put immediately on siege, and HS for double merchant action), expressed anything along the lines of "that's not how I intended it"?
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clydeiii wrote:
Dearlove wrote:
AndrewE wrote:
did you see the game?

No. I only sat on the stand on the Saturday (plus a bit of set-up help on the Wednesday) and this was Thursday or Friday. Mind you, I didn't see any of the games played on Saturday (when we had two Snow tables) either as running my table took all my time.
Can you ask him what he did?

Directly, no, because I don't have his email address.
 
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garygarison wrote:
Dearlove wrote:
I did have a conversation with Martin (over breakfast one day) about the list of options that's at the top of this thread.
Are you allowed to disclose whether Martin Wallace, when told of the two main Home Support abuses (HS military on the turn it's bought to be put immediately on siege, and HS for double merchant action), expressed anything along the lines of "that's not how I intended it"?

Rather than get into an exercise as to where I draw a line on what I can and can't say, I take the approach (which I picked up playtesting for Reiner Knizia) of mostly not saying anything I learn in private conversations. This excludes quite a few things that actually there's nothing confidential about, but avoids having to make judgements and maybe getting them wrong.
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Understand I'm not trying to pry. I'm really just curious as to whether the Home Support abuse came as a surprise to Martin Wallace.
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garygarison wrote:
Understand I'm not trying to pry. I'm really just curious as to whether the Home Support abuse came as a surprise to Martin Wallace.

I appreciate that. But I'm leaving comments on what Martin thinks/thought to Martin.
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Dearlove wrote:
garygarison wrote:
Understand I'm not trying to pry. I'm really just curious as to whether the Home Support abuse came as a surprise to Martin Wallace.

I appreciate that. But I'm leaving comments on what Martin thinks/thought to Martin.
That kind of behavior is entirely out of place here!
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Since this thread contains all the proposed variant options, how about the following variant:

* British Player cannot win via a siege of Quebec. (remove this victory condition).

Does this do anything? If the british goes for small deck military, can the french player ignore the loss of Louisburg while racing towards a different win condition? Or does this loss simply cripple their ability to play for any other victories as well?

There are still three victory conditions remaining for the british if we remove this: settlements, town upgrades, or capturing tokens. Military could still win for them via the capturing method, so its not as if its totally removed as an option.
 
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