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Subject: Initial setup rss

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Kevin Walsh
Ireland
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Is the Host card shuffled into the Search deck before players are dealt a random card from the Search deck, or after? The rules in the copy I picked up at Essen say after, but in that case you might well not have a Host after the first round.
 
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John Brownsill
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Deal each player an item first. Then shuffle in the host card to the top (2 x number of players) cards of the search deck.
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PY D
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Then I have a question : as everybody has to search during his first turn, there can be a 50% chance that there is no host after everybody played one time.

So there is a possibility that there is no host, that the players don't search anymore and that one player gathers enough gascans to burn the nest.

After two games like this, we assumed that the player who burns the nest had to have 8 cards in his hand (to respect the 5 cards limit) but the FAQ states that this is not the case.

But, playing like this forced us to have a host and the game was much more fun and tense.

What did we miss in our first games then ?
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Bob Gallo
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I have some issues with the initial setup but this seems improbable and I’m really surprise this happened twice in a row. There are 12 gas cans total, 6 are distributed at the start of the game 1 to each player, so you need to pull two more gas cans of the 6 remaining from a 44 card deck (using the expansion wihtout the antidote), one from the random equipment allocation and one from the search .. for the first player that’s 1/7 x 1/9 = 1/63 … you get 6 tries at this (although the odds are slightly different due to deck depletion) plus you have the 50/50 chance of avoiding infection. Not impossible but it does seem unlikely.
 
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Bob Gallo
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Raid1280 wrote:
the computer terminals are either behind locked security doors (so someone will need a key card), or it's in the middle of the room deck, or lower


This makes an early heat scan improbable as well, which as Eric said is the only safe way to trade up to 3.
 
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PY D
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StormbringerGrey wrote:
I have some issues with the initial setup but this seems improbable and I’m really surprise this happened twice in a row. There are 12 gas cans total, 6 are distributed at the start of the game 1 to each player, so you need to pull two more gas cans of the 6 remaining from a 44 card deck (using the expansion wihtout the antidote), one from the random equipment allocation and one from the search .. for the first player that’s 1/7 x 1/9 = 1/63 … you get 6 tries at this (although the odds are slightly different due to deck depletion) plus you have the 50/50 chance of avoiding infection. Not impossible but it does seem unlikely.


Yes indeed but players managed to convince each other to trade the gas cans to only one player so there was no need to draw any as we already had 4 in play (4-players game). Of course, if one player was a host, he could have taken advantage of this but, as there was no host, the game felt a little flat...
 
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David Ausloos
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kettch wrote:
StormbringerGrey wrote:
I have some issues with the initial setup but this seems improbable and I’m really surprise this happened twice in a row. There are 12 gas cans total, 6 are distributed at the start of the game 1 to each player, so you need to pull two more gas cans of the 6 remaining from a 44 card deck (using the expansion wihtout the antidote), one from the random equipment allocation and one from the search .. for the first player that’s 1/7 x 1/9 = 1/63 … you get 6 tries at this (although the odds are slightly different due to deck depletion) plus you have the 50/50 chance of avoiding infection. Not impossible but it does seem unlikely.


Yes indeed but players managed to convince each other to trade the gas cans to only one player so there was no need to draw any as we already had 4 in play (4-players game). Of course, if one player was a host, he could have taken advantage of this but, as there was no host, the game felt a little flat...


While this is a situational thing, what I don't understand in this scenario is how the hive got into play so quickly, since it is mixed into the last 5 explore cards and the open terminal only comes into play in the second half of the game.
 
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PY D
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Well, as I said, the players convinced each other just by playing (giving away a gas can, shooting at a parasite to save another player...). So no terminal was used but everybody got convinced (without proof) that there was no host.

So it was just a matter of getting 3 gascans to one player and exploring all the rooms until the hive came out at the end and the player could destroy it.

And as there was no searching and the parasites rooms were placed out of the way, there were also not a lot of parasites to deal with.

Now, I completely agree that if there had been a host, he would have been able to turn that situation in his favor. But there just wasn't one and there is a 50/50 chance of that happening.

That's why our 3rd game with the obligation of having 8 cards in hand to be able to discard the 3 gas cans was much more tense and really what I expected the game would be.

What I also think is that, when we play it again and we have a host right from the start, we will see that what we did on the first 2 games (trusting each other too much) was much too dangerous.
 
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Andy
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I can see how the situation you describe is possible...

Since the host card is in the top 8 cards (in a 4 player game), provided it is the 5th or lower card, then after a full round of searching (mandatory per the rules), then play could continue with NO further searches, and just exploration and move actions to find the hive. If no-one searches then the host card is never drawn and all players can co-operate to destroy the hive.

However, it sounds like a really dull way to play the game - and a guaranteed way for everyone to win. And all it takes is one person to screw with the plan and draw more cards Mwahahaha!!! (or be lying that they haven't already drawn the host card).
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David Ausloos
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kettch wrote:
Well, as I said, the players convinced each other just by playing (giving away a gas can, shooting at a parasite to save another player...). So no terminal was used but everybody got convinced (without proof) that there was no host.

So it was just a matter of getting 3 gascans to one player and exploring all the rooms until the hive came out at the end and the player could destroy it.

And as there was no searching and the parasites rooms were placed out of the way, there were also not a lot of parasites to deal with.

Now, I completely agree that if there had been a host, he would have been able to turn that situation in his favor. But there just wasn't one and there is a 50/50 chance of that happening.

That's why our 3rd game with the obligation of having 8 cards in hand to be able to discard the 3 gas cans was much more tense and really what I expected the game would be.

What I also think is that, when we play it again and we have a host right from the start, we will see that what we did on the first 2 games (trusting each other too much) was much too dangerous.


Absolutely.
It is effectively a very risky thing to do. Even more so when there are storage rooms in play at the start of the exploration since these boost up the chance of a host entering play during the first turn considerably. So 50/50 is certainly not always the ratio. But it is an interesting description.

That said, winning the game without searching is in many cases highly implausible since a team really needs some defence in order to survive the hostile enviroments. I have seen human teams with 3 gascans in hand fail because of a horde of parasites they weren't prepared for because they didn't search the station enough to gather the more powerful items.
It only takes a needed extra search in a room or unfortunate placement of a paradite room to turn a situation.
In some of the most cinematic sessions I played at Essen the whole board was filled with parasites that could not have been avoided spawning.
once those black parasites enter play...wicked.

In any case Pierre-Yves, look forwards in reading your future experiences with the game.
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Bartosz Popow
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But if players don't search, how many parasites can there be on the board?
 
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David Ausloos
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BartP wrote:
But if players don't search, how many parasites can there be on the board?


That depends from the situation of a specific setting:
there are several parasite rooms that spawn parasites when entered/passed, often unavoidable to continue exploring the station.
Furthermore there are parasite alert cards.
I have seen many games with at least 5 parasites in play.
This can already be quite deadly if team members don't tactically position themselves in optimal locations. The unpredictable nature of the parasites also can lead to some twisted moments.

Then again, a human team not searching will seriously handicap himself against all manner of situations.
 
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