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Claustrophobia: De Profundis» Forums » Rules

Subject: Separating the new Event cards with the old ones? rss

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Eric O. LEBIGOT
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"When you play a scenario from this expansion, shuffle the new Event cards with those from the base set." This seems to imply that the base game scenarios should only be played with the base Event cards. Is this indeed the case?

If yes, how can one separate the Event cards back in two decks? (I can't find any distinctive marks on the cards that would allow one to do this without a list of the cards in the base game and in the expansion.)
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Here are the new ones:



I've posted similar pictures showing the new cards of other types as well (advantage, gifts, objects, etc.). If you prefer text listings of all the new cards by title, I provided that in my review: Hellhound on my Trail.
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Chris J Davis
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lebigot wrote:
"When you play a scenario from this expansion, shuffle the new Event cards with those from the base set." This seems to imply that the base game scenarios should only be played with the base Event cards. Is this indeed the case?
I really can't imagine it would matter that much.
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lebigot wrote:
"When you play a scenario from this expansion, shuffle the new Event cards with those from the base set." This seems to imply that the base game scenarios should only be played with the base Event cards. Is this indeed the case?
Sorry, I guess I really only read the "how do I separate them" part initially. You can certainly use the new events with the original game. Obviously you'd want to include the new advantage cards as well, to provide some balance, and you'd also need to impose the new 3-card hand limit for the Demon player.
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Lucas Hedgren
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bleached_lizard wrote:
lebigot wrote:
"When you play a scenario from this expansion, shuffle the new Event cards with those from the base set." This seems to imply that the base game scenarios should only be played with the base Event cards. Is this indeed the case?
I really can't imagine it would matter that much.
Well, 3 of the cards refer to the Hellhounds, but also have effects for Demons. That's the only major reason I can think of to not include them. I wonder why they were specifically excluded from being used in the base game, whereas the new Advantages were not...
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boomtron wrote:
Well, 3 of the cards refer to the Hellhounds, but also have effects for Demons. That's the only major reason I can think of to not include them. I wonder why they were specifically excluded from being used in the base game, whereas the new Advantages were not...
There's no reason not to use Hellhounds with the old scenarios. They aren't specified on a per-scenario basis. You can bring the Hellhounds on once each for 3 TP when using the expansion rules.
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Lucas Hedgren
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Sphere wrote:
boomtron wrote:
Well, 3 of the cards refer to the Hellhounds, but also have effects for Demons. That's the only major reason I can think of to not include them. I wonder why they were specifically excluded from being used in the base game, whereas the new Advantages were not...
There's no reason not to use Hellhounds with the old scenarios. They aren't specified on a per-scenario basis. You can bring the Hellhounds on once each for 3 TP when using the expansion rules.
Well, except for, you know, the rules.

Die Profundis Rules wrote:
In all scenarios in this expansion, unless otherwise stated, the Demon player can always bring into play Hellhounds.
[emphasis mine]

Now, I totally agree, it doesn't seem like there would be an issue. But, it was specifically disallowed for some reason. I'd love to hear about it from CROC.
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boomtron wrote:
Well, except for, you know, the rules.

Die Profundis Rules wrote:
In all scenarios in this expansion, unless otherwise stated, the Demon player can always bring into play Hellhounds.
(emphasis mine)

Now, I totally agree, it doesn't seem like there would be an issue. But, it was specifically disallowed for some reason. I'd love to hear about it from CROC.
OK, let's step back. If you want to refer to the rules, they also say this:


Die Profundis Rules wrote:
When you play a scenario from this expansion, shuffle the new Event cards with those from the base set.
(emphasis mine)

So, from a formal perspective, the rules don't tell you to use either the new cards or the Hellhounds with the original scenarios, which makes perfect sense, given that the original scenarios were designed and tested before the expansion existed.

If somebody does want to try out the new cards in the old scenarios, and they're worried about the cards which refer to the Hellhounds, they could exclude those cards, or include the Hellhounds, or just play the cards for use with a Demon.

It's all about trying something and having fun. I'm pretty sure CROC has no intention to disallow anything.
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Lucas Hedgren
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I think we are in a violent agreement here.

The rules say that "Some of these new options can also be used with the base game." Then they list the options:

Tiles: "When you play a scenario from this expansion..."
Advantage Cards: "...You can use [the full deck] with all scenarios"
Event Cards: "When you play a scenario from this expansion..."
Gifts: "...are used in this expansion"
Objects: "used in scenarios contained in this expansion"
Hellhouds: "In the scenarios in this expansion..."
Sicaria: Not mentioned, but as they are assigned as part of a scenario, goes without saying.

So, it looks like only the Advantage cards and the new Aura of Blessing are specifically supposed to be used with the base set, per the rules.

Now, again, I totally agree that using any or all of it with the base set doesn't seem to create any issues. Play how you want, of course. I would just like to hear why the rules are the way they are, if possible, that's all.
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TS S. Fulk
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It's my game, and no one is stopping me from playing old scenarios with the new gear. Why must it be stated in the rulebook? I've never understood such ideas.

That said, I probably won't be playing the old scenarios much, since I still need to play the new ones.

boomtron wrote:
I think we are in a violent agreement here.

The rules say that "Some of these new options can also be used with the base game." Then they list the options:

Tiles: "When you play a scenario from this expansion..."
Advantage Cards: "...You can use [the full deck] with all scenarios"
Event Cards: "When you play a scenario from this expansion..."
Gifts: "...are used in this expansion"
Objects: "used in scenarios contained in this expansion"
Hellhouds: "In the scenarios in this expansion..."
Sicaria: Not mentioned, but as they are assigned as part of a scenario, goes without saying.

So, it looks like only the Advantage cards and the new Aura of Blessing are specifically supposed to be used with the base set, per the rules.

Now, again, I totally agree that using any or all of it with the base set doesn't seem to create any issues. Play how you want, of course. I would just like to hear why the rules are the way they are, if possible, that's all.
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Eric O. LEBIGOT
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tssfulk wrote:
It's my game, and no one is stopping me from playing old scenarios with the new gear. Why must it be stated in the rulebook?
Sure, everybody plays like they want. That said, when presented with a new game, I trust the rules; in fact, games like Claustrophobia were playtested by experts, and I trust them: if the rules say "don't do this", I prefer to first follow them, because there is probably a good reason behind the author's choice.
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I think that excluding cards, tiles and miniatures EVERY TIME you want to play base scenarios is somewhat problematical. And unnecessary. Besides expansion isn't changing the core of the game after all, it's just adding some new elements to make this game even better. There's even one scenario (Hunt's Afoot) which shows that old and new could be perfectly mixed up...
And discovering other base scenarios with expansion's elements could be quite a fun, too!
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CROC
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To date I have NOT replayed the basic scenarios with the new cards, tiles and hellhounds. It COULD be playable, but I'm not sure.

I definitivly need to do that ASAP. It's on my todo list for sure !

For the moment, only use the new stuff with the new scenarios.

Regards,

CROC
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Dan Spezzano
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To answer the original questions there is nothing on the cards marking them as expansion cards. This is only an issue on the Event cards as you have discovered.

However there are only 18 new event cards and 9 unique cards out of those 18 (ie 9 x 2 = 18) so I just made a short list and I pull them out after playing the expansion scenarios it takes about 5 minutes tops.

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Separating cards isn't that hard to do, but separating tiles is. Don't forget there are 46 tiles now...
Still I don't know if I want excluding cards, tiles or hounds while playing base scenarios. It could be quite interesting to play some old scenarios with new stuff, although, without little modifications, humans still couldn't have any of the new objects at the beginning of the game.

Some modifications are welcome, though we can't demand it from CROC, as it would take some time and additional playtesting. And this time could be spent on making new scenarios

Maybe it would be a good idea to make an separate post with some modifications' suggestions on specific scenarios? Unofficial suggestions of course.
 
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Ralph Tricoche
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Did you ever playtest older scenarios with newer content? I play with my son, but it feels like we are playing different portions of the same game, not cohesive. I could be wrong. Maybe as I get more familiar it will appear more cohesive. Not sure.

biohazard wrote:
To date I have NOT replayed the basic scenarios with the new cards, tiles and hellhounds. It COULD be playable, but I'm not sure.

I definitivly need to do that ASAP. It's on my todo list for sure !

For the moment, only use the new stuff with the new scenarios.

Regards,

CROC
 
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