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Subject: Rule changed ? rss

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miloboy gogogo
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I just read wikipedia

and it said

Game balance fixesThe following changes may be made to the official rules in order to create a more balanced game and one which gives each player an equal chance of winning:

1.The prices of the Factory and University buildings should be swapped so that the Factory costs 8 doubloons and the University costs 7 doubloons. The designer Andreas Seyfarth has said he would make this change if he were creating the game today.[4]
2.Any players that start with a corn plantation should start with 1 doubloon less than the players that start with an indigo plantation


Can anyone confirm this ?

thank
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Dion Baxter
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As far as I know, this is a suggestion but the game is going to remain unchanged in the new 10th anniversary edition.

I'll try to find the link that states this.
 
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Steve Bauer
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The price switched has been talked about several times before but only as a variant:

Seyfarth's University/Factory Swap? "proposed house rule" or "designer suggest change"
[POLL] Would You Play PR w/the Designer Suggested Change to the Cost of the University & Factory?

I have never heard of reducing the starting money.
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Steve Bauer
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Listed in the main Puerto rico page(More Information section) are these recommendations with links to there source, looks like only the price swap in from the designer and the reduced starting money is from bgg user TropicEuro. Neither is official.

Wikipedia also only credits the price swap as being from Andreas Seyfarth and not the starting money change.



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miloboy gogogo
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Thank everyone
 
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miloboy gogogo
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Well just look at German 10th anni Rule book

http://www.ravensburger.de/spielanleitungen/ecm/Spielanleitu...

University still cost 8 and Factory cost 7

So I think I will not swap the price
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Tibs
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They are both variants at this stage, but both are highly recommended.

It's worth mentioning that the reduced-corn-money rule was developed in response to results from 25 million game simulations. It seems this is a great way to fix the slight corn advantage.

I don't think more has to be said about the Factory/University swap.
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Chris Berger
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miloboy wrote:
The following changes may be made to the official rules in order to create a more balanced game and one which gives each player an equal chance of winning:

1.The prices of the Factory and University buildings should be swapped so that the Factory costs 8 doubloons and the University costs 7 doubloons. The designer Andreas Seyfarth has said he would make this change if he were creating the game today.[4]
2.Any players that start with a corn plantation should start with 1 doubloon less than the players that start with an indigo plantation


Can anyone confirm this ?


Yes, I can confirm that those changes to the official rules may be made. You may also make changes to the official rules to allow the Wharf to be bought for 1 doubloon or for aliens to come over on the Slave Colonist Ship.
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Tibs
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arkayn wrote:
Yes, I can confirm that those changes to the official rules may be made. You may also make changes to the official rules to allow the Wharf to be bought for 1 doubloon or for aliens to come over on the Slave Colonist Ship.

I can only hope that you're not in any field that uses statistics.
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Chris Berger
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kungfro wrote:
arkayn wrote:
Yes, I can confirm that those changes to the official rules may be made. You may also make changes to the official rules to allow the Wharf to be bought for 1 doubloon or for aliens to come over on the Slave Colonist Ship.

I can only hope that you're not in any field that uses statistics.


Every field uses statistics. meeple

I'm sorry I missed it - what was that comment supposed to mean?

---Edit---
I think I figured out what you're getting at... at least to some degree. So let me say this: I was in no way making a value judgement about the worth of the variant rules. I think they're probably a good change balance-wise, but I haven't played with them.

The OP's question was essentially: "Wikipedia says I am allowed to play with this variant. Can anyone confirm?" My answer was: "You can play with any variant you want, including these ridiculous examples that I just came up with."
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kungfro wrote:
arkayn wrote:
Yes, I can confirm that those changes to the official rules may be made. You may also make changes to the official rules to allow the Wharf to be bought for 1 doubloon or for aliens to come over on the Slave Colonist Ship.

I can only hope that you're not in any field that uses statistics.


Well, he does like Bacon. Whether it is Francis Bacon the natural philosopher or the stuff cut off the back of a pig I have no idea....whistle
 
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Steve Bauer
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markgravitygood wrote:
kungfro wrote:
arkayn wrote:
Yes, I can confirm that those changes to the official rules may be made. You may also make changes to the official rules to allow the Wharf to be bought for 1 doubloon or for aliens to come over on the Slave Colonist Ship.

I can only hope that you're not in any field that uses statistics.


Well, he does like Bacon. Whether it is Francis Bacon the natural philosopher or the stuff cut off the back of a pig I have no idea....whistle


Does it have to be one or the other?
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Yes. Yes it does....
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arkayn wrote:

I think I figured out what you're getting at... at least to some degree. So let me say this: I was in no way making a value judgement about the worth of the variant rules. I think they're probably a good change balance-wise, but I haven't played with them.

The OP's question was essentially: "Wikipedia says I am allowed to play with this variant. Can anyone confirm?" My answer was: "You can play with any variant you want, including these ridiculous examples that I just came up with."


Yes, you figured out essentially what I was saying. But OP's question was actually, "I've seen mention of these rules becoming official. Are have they been made official?" And for good reason. There's been a lot of talk about it so it's not implausible.
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Chris Berger
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kungfro wrote:
Yes, you figured out essentially what I was saying. But OP's question was actually, "I've seen mention of these rules becoming official. Are have they been made official?" And for good reason. There's been a lot of talk about it so it's not implausible.


You're reading in an awful lot to the question... I don't see anything about "official"?
 
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arkayn wrote:

Yes, I can confirm that those changes to the official rules may be made. You may also make changes to the official rules to allow the Wharf to be bought for 1 doubloon or for aliens to come over on the Slave Colonist Ship.


Of course. Because a rules change suggested by the GAME DESIGNER HIMSELF is the same thing as changing the Wharf to 1 doubloon. Sure. gulp

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miloboy gogogo
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kungfro wrote:
arkayn wrote:

I think I figured out what you're getting at... at least to some degree. So let me say this: I was in no way making a value judgement about the worth of the variant rules. I think they're probably a good change balance-wise, but I haven't played with them.

The OP's question was essentially: "Wikipedia says I am allowed to play with this variant. Can anyone confirm?" My answer was: "You can play with any variant you want, including these ridiculous examples that I just came up with."


Yes, you figured out essentially what I was saying. But OP's question was actually, "I've seen mention of these rules becoming official. Are have they been made official?" And for good reason. There's been a lot of talk about it so it's not implausible.



Thank you man

I'm not good at English
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Chris Gibbs
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The 1-coin corn fix has been online in Tropic Euro ( www.tropiceuro.com ) for over a year now, and has resulted in more balanced games, at least for ones involving one or more CPU Hard players (i.e. where TE currently records server-side statistics). Additionally, some users have used them in plays using the regular board game and reported success.

I've posted a set of statistics in another thread which show that it's more balanced for computer-computer games across a wide range of possible strategies:

http://boardgamegeek.com/article/5473055#5473055

In terms of the win %, it's a proof that it's more balanced, but if anyone wants to prove that it's an improvement across other factors such as average points, average position, standard deviation, etc then you are welcome to download my best player testers, add your own stats code and report back on your findings:

http://www.tropiceuro.com/puerto-rico-evolver/

(I highly suspect it fixes it significantly across all factors, since there must be at least some correlation between win % and average position/points)
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John Weber
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Chris,

What are doing posting data that is over one year old? Presumably there have been many more games played since then. Where are those results?
 
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Chris Gibbs
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John Weber wrote:
Chris,

What are doing posting data that is over one year old? Presumably there have been many more games played since then. Where are those results?


Well there haven't been anywhere near 25 million games played on the Tropic Euro server yet, maybe in 1000 years' time

I haven't done another big run of games using the evolver best player testers since September 2010, and no game rules have been changed since then, nor have I created any more evolved players. So, the Sep 2010 data still remains perfectly valid, and is by far the most comprehensive set of test data generated so far.

I have been compiling server-side stats of all games involving the hard AI though, stored in one plaintext file per individual live evolver player. I'll publish this data at some point when I get round to writing some code to amalgamate all of the evolver players for each game size (so far I've just had a look at some of the individual DNA files to check for improved balance).
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Chris Gibbs
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The results and statistics of over 25,000 games on the Tropic Euro server have been published in this thread: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/7876579
 
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