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Shadows over Camelot» Forums » Rules

Subject: Variants versus Official rules rss

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Brü Meister
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Just curious,
I have found several rules in SOC to be hotly debated about their usage.
One of the more debated rules is the use of 2 heroic actions (using a lifepoint) to both fight seige engines and draw cards.

People have come up with good arguements for both - apparently someone at DoW said that you could do that, only to be over-ruled by Bruno. It seems to be accepted that if Bruno said that it should be a certain way - then that is THE only way it should be. (I personally think that the rules dealing with Camelot could have been written alot more clearly to avoid this confusion)
Fine.

But what about all the variants cropping up now? Not official rules at all, but rules thought up by people like you and me. Not only do they create a more varied game but often IMPROVE on the gameplay and the replayability of the game.

I guess what I am asking is "Do you play ONLY with the OFFICIAL rules as set out by DoW, or do you play with variants?"

As mentioned in the opening example - I WOULD try 1 or 2 games with a variant allowing me to draw cards, spend a life point, go for free to the seige engine area and fight. Why not? You can only do this a few times as you have limited life points and cards. When you draw cards you are not certain of gaining fight cards at all. Also, their is no reward for fighting seige engines - only to prevent the game from winning via the 12 seige engine rule. I have only played with 4 people (about 6 games so far) and have always found that the game is decided by fighting a seige engine end-game.

Your thoughts?
 
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Dane Peacock
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brumeister wrote:
"Do you play ONLY with the OFFICIAL rules as set out by DoW, or do you play with variants?"


So far, we play only with the official rules. I am very tempted to use one of the proposed variants for penalizing a revealed traitor.

I would never play the Camelot action differently. A player may only perform one quest action per turn, regardless of which location, so why change it for Camelot? The official rule makes sense.
 
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Mr. D
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Oneonta
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Sky Knight X wrote:
So far, we play only with the official rules. I am very tempted to use one of the proposed variants for penalizing a revealed traitor.

I would never play the Camelot action differently. A player may only perform one quest action per turn, regardless of which location, so why change it for Camelot? The official rule makes sense.


If I had checked the site earlier, I would have written the exact same statement.
 
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Alex

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The game designers usually know what they are doing. Any solid game is playtested as well. I think it is usually not a good idea to change the rules of a game because you think yours are better. It might upset balance or end up with weird gameplay.

On the other hand, I am very fond of "expansion"-type variants. I usually get a little bored with every game I get, and I love it when the designers add more stuff. It rekindles your interest in the game. But I don't stick to official variants. I often make my own or get them from this site.
 
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Travis Hall
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brumeister wrote:
(I personally think that the rules dealing with Camelot could have been written alot more clearly to avoid this confusion)

The designers of SOC are both French, and English is a second language for them. Having read some of what Bruno Cathala has written in English in forums, I don't think his English is good enough to write precise rules in English. (Mind you, his English is much better than my French. I don't mean to put him down.) The same probably goes for Serge Langet. I would guess that the rules for SOC were originally written in French, and the translation to English is a little lacking.

Of course, this means that we English-speakers are experiencing the same problems the non-English-speakers experience every second time a game comes out of the USA, UK or Australia.
 
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Ubergeek
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Washougal
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I've always held the position that once you buy a game, it's yours to do with or play with as you please. Granted this doesn't work for organized play or official tournaments and gatherings but in a friendly atmosphere it works fine. Obviously everyone should try to agree on changes before starting play.

Why change things? Well the obvious is to fix broken mechanisms. This can't be done without first playing the game with the official rules quite a few times. There are plenty of players that have identified areas of concern for the rules of SoC. The second reason would be to make the game more enjoyable.

One of the problems I have with defeating siege engines is the lack of reward for doing so. You don't gain life, swords, or at the very least more cards. All you do is stave off the catepult win for evil which is arguably what happens most with fewer players. Perhaps a player should be rewarded with one or two cards at camelot if they defeat a catapult. Or for every 6 catapults defeated you may place a white flag at the Round Table. (Use a die to track this) This might dissuade an evil player from using the catepult gambit.

The official fix thrown at the game by DoW after the fact is nothing more than a variant someone in an official capacity thought up. And it probably came out of the numerous suggestions that were made here to improve play. There's nothing that proves their solution is any better than one you can come up with.

My bottom line is there's nothing wrong with throwing your own rules into this or any game.cool
 
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Brü Meister
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Walt,
I like your idea of gaining a card or SOMETHING for fighting a seige engine. I stated in another post that if you fight a seige engine and lose - you have
1- progressed evil without countering it
2- lost a life point
3- lost you cards that you played - at least 2, probably 3
4- the seige engine remains out there
5- you have wasted your turn and accomplished nothing.

That is a whole lotta downside with the only reward being you remove 1 stinking seige engine off the board.
 
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