GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters at year's end: 1000!
9,755 Supporters
$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
16 Days Left

Support:

Jonathan Harrison
United States
Fisher
Illinois
flag msg tools
So long ...
badge
... and thanks for all the fish.
Avatar
mb
ACLU: John McCain– and Carl Levin–authored bill will “basically say in law for the first time that the homeland is part of the battlefield” and that people can be imprisoned without charge or trial “American citizen or not” (Sen. Lindsey Graham, in support of the legislation).
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Senate voting on legislation to allow military detention of U.S. citizens without charge or trial
Terrorists under the dead. So how many BGGers will be seen as un-American? As for me, I resent being subjected to US law without a right to decide what those laws are. Indead is this not exaclty what Soviot Russian did with General Kutepov?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan Harrison
United States
Fisher
Illinois
flag msg tools
So long ...
badge
... and thanks for all the fish.
Avatar
mb
Re: Senate voting on legislation to allow military detention of U.S. citizens without charge or trial
slatersteven wrote:
Terrorists under the dead. So how many BGGers will be seen as un-American?

Horrifyingly, we seem also to be worried whether persons such as yourself are being un-American, too. It's the "worldwide indefinite detention" act, after all.

Heaven knows we can't have foreigners having opinions, let alone American subjects!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan Harrison
United States
Fisher
Illinois
flag msg tools
So long ...
badge
... and thanks for all the fish.
Avatar
mb
Re: Senate voting on legislation to allow military detention of U.S. citizens without charge or trial
slatersteven wrote:
As for me, I resent being subjected to US law without a right to decide what those laws are.

Why should you have a right we ourselves don't?

Ha. That'll shut you foreign agitators up!
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Senate voting on legislation to allow military detention of U.S. citizens without charge or trial
HuginnGreiling wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
As for me, I resent being subjected to US law without a right to decide what those laws are.

Why should you have a right we ourselves don't?

Ha. That'll shut you foreign agitators up!


You can vote these twats out, I can't.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
HuginnGreiling wrote:
Horrifyingly, we seem also to be worried whether persons such as yourself are being un-American, too. It's the "worldwide indefinite detention" act, after all.

Heaven knows we can't have foreigners having opinions, let alone American subjects!


How to fuel anti-Americansim 101, tell the rest of the world you are subject to our laws and we can arrest you without a warrent. Next act upon thise laws in a neutral, or allied, country. I know how about Aspergers sufferers.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan Harrison
United States
Fisher
Illinois
flag msg tools
So long ...
badge
... and thanks for all the fish.
Avatar
mb
slatersteven wrote:
You can vote these twats out, I can't.

Sadly, a vote doesn't count for much these days. You notice the bill was sponsored by a member of both major parties?

There's a reason I support Ron Paul. This is lunacy.
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moshe Callen
Israel
Jerusalem
flag msg tools
designer
ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
badge
μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This seems to have been de facto for a long time.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
"that's a smith and wesson, and you've had your six"
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
HuginnGreiling wrote:
You notice the bill was sponsored by a member of both major parties?



And Levin is Jewish. You'd think of all people, he'd be weary of passing a bill that allows the government to imprison citizens without a trial.

6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan Harrison
United States
Fisher
Illinois
flag msg tools
So long ...
badge
... and thanks for all the fish.
Avatar
mb
whac3 wrote:
This seems to have been de facto for a long time.

Well, sure. But, you know, we could kind of sit around in our nice little offshore cells and say to each other, "Well, at least it's against the law!"

Now we don't have even that solace.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moshe Callen
Israel
Jerusalem
flag msg tools
designer
ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
badge
μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
HuginnGreiling wrote:
whac3 wrote:
This seems to have been de facto for a long time.

Well, sure. But, you know, we could kind of sit around and say to each other, "Well, at least it's against the law!"

Now we don't have even that solace.

When you take away one person's rights, you take away everyone's.
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
whac3 wrote:
This seems to have been de facto for a long time.


In terms of non-US citizens yes. But to make it stick they have had to take them outside areas protected by US law (such as Cuba). This would now remove even the gossamer venire of legal protection this gives.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan Harrison
United States
Fisher
Illinois
flag msg tools
So long ...
badge
... and thanks for all the fish.
Avatar
mb
I think the big issue is that a lot of Americans have been noticing this happening. I mean, first it was foreigners, and people protested. Then it was American citizens, and people protested some more.

Anyway. So people have been noticing. And we were kinda, well, hoping for a government pronouncement on this sort of thing. You know, something like "This is an abhorrence upon the Constitution."

But when we got the pronouncement, it was more like, "Excellent idea. Let's codify this." yuk
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan Harrison
United States
Fisher
Illinois
flag msg tools
So long ...
badge
... and thanks for all the fish.
Avatar
mb
slatersteven wrote:
whac3 wrote:
This seems to have been de facto for a long time.


In terms of non-US citizens yes. But to make it stick they have had to take them outside areas protected by US law (such as Cuba). This would now remove even the gossamer venire of legal protection this gives.

Ah, our police do this all time. This is just bringing in the bigger guns. Police are so underequipped to deal with our citizens these days ...
Quote:
Stoeckly said police stopped him on Broadway near Zuccotti Park [on Thursday night] because his license plate was "askew" and asked to search his vehicle [in the United States, citizens have a legal right to refuse searches]. When he wouldn't consent to the search, he said, they arrested him "for obstructing government administration" and held him until Friday night.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moshe Callen
Israel
Jerusalem
flag msg tools
designer
ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
badge
μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
slatersteven wrote:
whac3 wrote:
This seems to have been de facto for a long time.


In terms of non-US citizens yes. But to make it stick they have had to take them outside areas protected by US law (such as Cuba). This would now remove even the gossamer venire of legal protection this gives.

I was referring to targeting US citizens.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marc P
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Gloomhaven is a great niche game
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This is fundamental enough to justify a statement by the president. I haven't been thrilled with Obama, but I would happily vote for him over Newt, Perry, Cain, or Paul. However, if he fails to properly respond to this, of all things, I will go from quietly voting for him to actively trashing him on every forum I can find.

How could they be so stupid?
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Phil Sauer
United States
Willow Street
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
HuginnGreiling wrote:
Sadly, a vote doesn't count for much these days. You notice the bill was sponsored by a member of both major parties?

There's a reason I support Ron Paul. This is lunacy.

As a political atheist, I must admit that Dr. Paul is pretty much the only person in Washington who has said the same thing AND has voted in a manner consistent with what he has said for decades. He walks his talk, and has NEVER -- not ONCE -- voted to remove freedom from the citizen.

In 2003, I had the opportunity to speak with Dr. Paul briefly, and the result was my brief foray into the political arena (U.S. House of Representatives, Texas, District 17). While I never formally ran, I did hire an exploratory team to see whether a bid would be worth it or not.

After two polls, tens of thousands of dollars (which I would love to have back), and a lot of time, I came to the conclusion that the voting public is largely ambivalent to the idea of freedom. They like the concept, but "NOT TOO MUCH NOW, THANK YOU VERY MUCH!"

My platform: The repeal of The "Patriot" Act, the most heinous and reprehensible piece of legislation ever devised by men and women giving lip service to the notion of "freedom."

I would add that this bit of legislation regarding making the "homeland" (a loaded term in so many ways that it makes me uncomfortable) the battleground now is disconcerting in the extreme.

The idea that discouraged me the most was how willing people were to trade freedom for security -- ESPECIALLY since "there is nothing to worry about, as I'm not a terrorist."

Between these observations and the sheer filth of the political arena, my current anarchistic foundation was complete.

Ron Paul cannot be purchased... thus he cannot and will not gain high office. He can cause no great trouble where he is, but should he ever seem to have a shot at more than that, I would suspect he would be removed from play by those who really call the shots in this nation of ours.

Thank you for reading.
17 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Les Marshall
United States
Woodinville
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
This is another sad artifact of the turn around of John McCain. Discarding of principle in aid of continuted political power is a hackneyed truism and yet sad none the less.

The threatened veto by Obama is at least one clear ethical choice which would earn my vote. I am surprised the small government Tea Party/GOP jihad isn't dumping all over this incredible attack on American liberty. Given the current supreme court make up we need more than ever to wrest congressional control away from anyone who would vote for this, democrat or republican.

And Phil, the lack of aprehension by the elctorate of threats to it's liberty should only be a challenge to lead, not a reason to lay down your sword and stay home.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan Harrison
United States
Fisher
Illinois
flag msg tools
So long ...
badge
... and thanks for all the fish.
Avatar
mb
aaxiom wrote:
.

I think Ron Paul can win the nomination, and the presidency. However ...

If it looks like he will win the nomination, I believe the Republican establishment would tamper with the primary results rather than allow this. And I believe the general election results would be compromised to prevent his winning the presidency should he appear on the path to winning.

And if he's elected, I believe he won't live out his first six months in office.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Phil Sauer
United States
Willow Street
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
HuginnGreiling wrote:
aaxiom wrote:
.

I think Ron Paul can win the nomination...

An opinion only...

For a person to appear on a national ballot in the first place they either
(a) have to have a track record of delivering goodies to backers,
(b) have the most promise of delivering goodies to backers out of those running, or
(c) experience a fluke in the system, which -- as you aptly point out -- is remedied later.

Ron Paul simply cannot be bought off, and thus cannot win the nomination in my opinion. This is why we observe the media ignoring him as often as humanly possible. Those brokering power are seeing to this. This, by the way, is how a person running on an "anti-war" platform wins the White House and then conducts so many adventures in militarism that they make George W. Bush and company look like Doves by comparison.

Voting always involves false choices -- this has been the case for MANY decades. This election will be no different -- as expected in these quarters.

Again, respectfully submitted with appreciation for any consideration of what has been stated.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Phil Sauer
United States
Willow Street
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Rulesjd wrote:
And Phil, the lack of aprehension by the elctorate of threats to it's liberty should only be a challenge to lead, not a reason to lay down your sword and stay home.

Hayek once said (and I must paraphrase at the moment):

When good men obtain power, evil invariably comes of it. When good men without power enter voluntary relationships with others, good invariably comes of it.

The problem -- as I see things -- is that we want to believe that the right person in charge of the Mafia is going to fix the Mafia (actually, the Mafia is a superior alternative to what we have, but that's another discussion ).

Eliminating the Mafia is the solution to this... but this certainly will not happen in our lifetime.

Again, simply my view -- hopefully provocative in some manner, whether there is agreement or not (and disagreement is highly preferred, honestly).
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Rulesjd wrote:
This is another sad artifact of the turn around of John McCain. Discarding of principle in aid of continuted political power is a hackneyed truism and yet sad none the less.

The threatened veto by Obama is at least one clear ethical choice which would earn my vote. I am surprised the small government Tea Party/GOP jihad isn't dumping all over this incredible attack on American liberty. Given the current supreme court make up we need more than ever to wrest congressional control away from anyone who would vote for this, democrat or republican.

And Phil, the lack of aprehension by the elctorate of threats to it's liberty should only be a challenge to lead, not a reason to lay down your sword and stay home.


Maybe they are less concearned woth otehr rights then thier desire to do what they please.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
MGK
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
HuginnGreiling wrote:
I think Ron Paul can win the nomination, and the presidency.


Both are extremely unlikely. You don't need conspiracies to rise up before your eyes to see that the socons and the fiscalcons alike will grit their teeth and vote for a compromise candidate (Newt Gingrich, probably) before they vote for Ron Paul. Paul's problem is the same as Mitt Romney's, except worse: he has a ceiling. His problem is worse than Romney's because Romney has money and can get lots more money, and money can be a lifeline. Paul's working small donors, and there's a limit to that.

And even if Paul wins the nomination, he won't win the Presidency. I'm sorry, but no amount of "we need a change in Washington" rhetoric will overcome "and part of that change would be killing off Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security."

And even if he wins the Presidency - so what? If Obama has demonstrated anything, it's that the office of the Presidency has relatively little influence over domestic politics.

Ten percent of the Paul wave are hardcore libertarians. The other ninety percent are political fantasists of an entirely different stripe.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris White
United States
Brooklyn
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
mightygodking wrote:

Ten percent of the Paul wave are hardcore libertarians. The other ninety percent are political fantasists of an entirely different stripe.


I'd say it's actually a lot more than ten percent; there are more hardcore libertarians down here than you realize. And the non-hardcore libertarian segment of his support comes in quite a few stripes: for instance, Paul has managed to attract the support of both white supremacists and misinformed antiwar potheads who don't realize that most of his social views are straight out of the '50s... the 1850s.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
fightcitymayor
United States
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
"This is a really weird game, and you’ll find that most people will not want to play this."
Avatar
mb
traininthedistance wrote:
...Paul has managed to attract the support of both white supremacists and misinformed antiwar potheads who don't realize that most of his social views are straight out of the '50s... the 1850s.
Not to derail, but... which of those "social views" are straight out of the 1850's again? I may have missed a memo.




1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.