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Super Dungeon Explore» Forums » Rules

Subject: Collection of questions for "Official FAQ" rss

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Emil Vincent Alonzo
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Hi all!

Thought I would try and help out Soda Pop Miniatures by putting together some of common questions that have been popping up about the game.

This thread isnt intended to be THE official FAQ, but rather just a collection of some of the questions I've seen floating around to make it easier for SPM to locate.


Feel free to add other items you feel the rules are vague about or that you've come across while playing, as I totally welcome help in putting this list together. This list isnt perfect, but I had nothing better to do while waiting for my copy of the game to arrive and figured this would help me prepare for playing .

Of course, you're also more than welcome to discuss the ruling here too, but again Im more just compiling these to see what the official stance is from the company, and most of these already have fully active threads discussing them here on BGG where your input would probably be put to better use.

Thanks all!

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Emil Vincent Alonzo
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(Thanks to:[Zwolf; Haree78; bumyong; ExeltusPendragon; Piteas; zalmute; thetang22; nobeerblues; iamfanboy; jolly_angus; mattvid; redben; thecandyman; xylon lionheart; candi; jwreschnig] for your contributions to this list!)


UPDATED 12/20 (new questions added will be in bold):

AoE & Auras:
-P. 24 of rulebook: "Unless specified otherwise, area effects must target a model and cannot target unoccupied squares." Is targeting friendly figures allowed?
For example, let's say there is a group of kobolds that are enveloped in smoke and therefore Glimmerdusk Ranger can't get a bead on any of them. But if another hero moves to the edge of the smoke cloud and then Glimmerdusk centers her Sparkle Burst (Burst 1)on that hero, it could hit some of the figures enveloped in the cloud without hurting the hero since friendlies aren't hurt by Sparkle Burst.
Also, the Consul could do this with Starfire's Dragon Breath (Spray 5, Fire) by targeting a friendly instead of a stealthed hero, therefore getting around the Dexterity check. (Assuming a ruling that not every figure makes their own stealth check in an AOE attack.)
-AOE Wrap Around: P. 24 says, "Area effects are blocked by walls." This makes total sense but does it wrap around corners, columns, and other items that normally block LOS?
For example, let's say Starfire is sitting in the middle of the room where it has the two walls with candles on it. Heroes are cowardly hiding behind the wall so Starfire has no LOS except for one hero that peeks around the corner. Stafire sprays and in hitting the one hero, the AOE would hit the hiding heroes if the spray wraps around the wall. But if the spray is blocked by the wall, then the AOE is reduced.
-Are auras supposed to be blocked by LoS? Official text says: “Line of Sight
Models require line of sight to attack or effect a target with their abilities.” So if two heroes were on the opposite sides of a wall, would the aura not reach even if it it was covered range wise?
-In what order do you handle models who are affected by AoEs?
-Do auras of models killed in an AoE attack stay active until all the models are resolved or are instantly disabled once the model is gone?
-Specifically for the "Mob" ability, what models do you count as being "in melee"? If it is based off of who is in range of attacking, does Range come into play? Or is it based on who is adjacent to the model?
-Does it matter if the description of "Mob" is on the front or back of the card or do models with "Mob" automatically gain it? E.g. Do Flingers & Ironscales who have Mob as an attribute on the back have Mob vs. a Knucklehead who has it on the front?
-If the initial target of an AoE (e.g. an attack with Burst) is able to successfully defend, is the whole attack cancelled or do enemies within the AoE's range have to still make ARM rolls against the attack? -When using an AoE that is "Dangerous" and the casting model is in the AoE, are they effected too? Basically is the casting model considered a "friendly model"? (e.g. a wave special ability that causes "fire" status... would it set the caster on fire since wave includes the spot the caster is standing on?)


Stealth:
-If an AoE successfully hits an initial target, do additional targets that have stealth get to roll to see if they are hit?
-If an AoE fails hitting an initial target (e.g. due to Stealth), does it completely fizzle or do other targets still get hit and if they possess Stealth too do they get to do a Stealth roll too?


Smoke:
-If smoke is in affect, will it prevent an additional target hidden from LoS in the smoke from getting hit from an AoE that successfully "targets" its initial target (for instance if the target is out of the smoke area)?
-Does Smoke block both LoS for both enemy and friendly characters?
-Are models standing on the edge of a “Smoke area” still out of LoS?


Status Effects:
-Is there a way to remove status effects on monsters other than Timeout? -No. No current other ways at this time (answer via official FB response, but figured I should leave this on anyway)
-Do multiple status effects compound (e.g. a model with poison, slow and weak causes all 3 on attack). Is this also the case when a Special Attack has 1 status effect on it while the model has a different innate one as well?


Hallways & Rooms:
-What constitutes a hallway? Are they only the squares connecting the tiles?
-What constitutes a room? If we go with the above question that the hallways are only those squares connecting the tiles then what about the long narrow 2 square corridors on some of the tiles? Are those their own room?
-Is room just a term for tiles? And if so, what happened when there is a hero in each room / tile and a boss needs to spawn?
-Do the arrows count as spaces or just indications of the next square on the next tile?


Squeezing:
-Is squeezing a term used for future games / releases?


Movement:
-Can a character move diagonally around a corner? -Yes (via official SPM response on FB but I thought this should still be left on the list since its not in the rulebook)
-Can a character move diagonally through two people/enemies? - Yes (via official SPM response on FB but I thought this should still be left on the list since it not in the rulebook)
-For larger characters (e.g. models who take up 4 squares) do they move one small square per Speed point or is 1 Speed point equivalent to “1 square equivalent to the area they take up?
-Since models can move freely through friendly models, do spawning points count, can models end on the same spot as another model, and in the instances of larger models can they stop on a spot that is partially taken up by another character?
-How do Large models move through halls?


Missile X & Range X:
-Missile X cant work on adjacent spaces. Is Range X supposed to be the same?
-Is Missile X not considered a ranged attack if a Range X attack can be used on someone 1 square away?


Loot/Relics/Loot Tracker / Power Gauge
-Does Fire Damage, Backlash and other dmg dealing effects advance the Loot Tracker or Power Gauge? (fire does not advance the Power Gauge per the rule book, but what about loot?)
-Does the tracker starts on the 8 bit or in the big golden circle?
-What marker is used as the Power Gauge marker as the description in the book differs from the game pieces? ( I think both sides of the same Gauge counter were printed separately and just not updated in the rules, but this needs clarification)
-Although loot/relics drawn from the loot and treasure piles can be saved to be equipped at the end of the round, if chosen to be resolved during the turn, are they equipped (or sacrificed) at the end of the model's activation (per pg 14) or immediately when drawn (per pg21).
-If a loot/relic is chosen to be held until the end of the turn, is it still eligible for the same hearts/potions that the heroes would have gotten if sacrificed immediately?


Dead Characters / Dead Spawn Points / Ressurection:
-Can dead characters equip items?
-Do dead characters keeps their equipent for when they res (what happens to the equipment on death?
-Although you can spawn any type of monster model you have in your pool from all the different spawn points, what happens when a spawn point is destroyed. Do you reduce the amount of monsters in your pool to match whats on your cards or do the monsters you start with stay eligible the whole game?
-If one type of spawn point is completely destroyed, can you still use those types of monsters from other spawn points?
-If a character with a fire token on it dies (or I guess any status effects for that matter) are they removed when a character is successfully resurrected?
-If a model dies from excess damage (e.g. a massive damage attack that deals 2 even though one will kill the model) is that additional damage still in effect when dealing with trying to resurrect a model?
-Is a resurrection charm used up after 1 attempt or after a hero is successfully resurrected.


Timing:
-Potions are listed as being able to be used anytime (except to receive a new potion). Can you still use a potion once a defensive roll is made (ARM, Dodge, etc.) to teleport away, move the attack, etc.?
-Can you use a healing potion to heal a character right before an attack hits (again, right after a defensive roll is made and fails)?
-Is the attack considers a failure and the AP spent if a character teleports away or otherwise makes an attack invalid (in the case of stealth it specifically says the attack fails, so assuming in this case at least the AP is spent?).



-Boss Timeout & Minions:
-Timeout says you may have to pull minions to the boss that are already in play on the board. Do those minions reset when they get pulled to the boss like that? (e.g. if monsters who have already attacked this turn get pulled to the Boss because of Timeout, are they considered new models? Do they lose any status effects they may have?)
-Do you have a choice between pulling minions from the board vs ones that are not in play? (does matter right now since there is only one Boss but and you HAVE to pull them all, but for future Bosses)
-For Starfire’s Timeout effect called “Firey Escape”, does this stay in effect continuously or just once when Timeout is activated (added due to rule vagueness compared to specific text describing “Boss Effects” on pg 14)


Rolling for initiative:
-During the "Rolling for Initiative" stage, do the Heroes and the Consul use the model on the table with the highest WILL when looking at all the models, or do they each only look at the models they control and then pick the one with the highest WILL from their own group of models? (added due to vague wording in the rulebook).
-Initiative: P. 10 of rulebook: "Players now take turns activating their models, beginning with the player who won the initiative roll. If heroes win initiative, does this mean that the hero player who rolled for initiative MUST go first? Or can hero players determine who will go first? (This is assuming that the winner of initiative chooses to go first.)

Boo Booty:
- When the Boo Booty card is drawn at a time other than when opening a treasure chest (e.g. reward for killing a Mini Boss), does it still spawn? The Boo Booty monster card says it may be played when the Boo Booty Relic card is drawn, but the Boo Booty Relic card says the monster model is supposed to replace the chest model.


Backlash:
-Does the backlash ability only affects melee combat?(Common sense tells me yes, but the rulebook does not specify it anywhere.)

Weapons:
-Do melee weapons (swords, axes, skimmers, etc) that improve the attack also improve range or magic attacks?

+ to AP:
-Some card and abilities (e.g. Rune of Haste) give +AP with a picture of a blue button, while others (e.g. Candy's Sugar Rush) give +AP that are grey. Are these +AP supposed to be color specific (as in a +AP Blue can only be used for special actions?) or is it a generic + to AP


8bit / 16bit / Super:
What is the goal of an 8-bit game for the heroes? To destroy the Spawn Points, or to kill Rex?

Barbarian "Rage":
-During the Barbarian's Special Attack "Rage" in which a melee attack can be made after each move made, can the Barbarian move back and forth between 2 spots and attack after each move or does is the Barbarian restricted from moving into the same spot it just moved from?
-If you dont attack after one of the moves (e.g. you move, attack, move, attack, but then move twice) does Rage still stay active and can you still make a attack? Do you get to bank attacks if you dont use an attack immediately after a move?
-Following Rage's second effect, does the Barbarian's base ARM drop to 2B (which means any other +to ARM will still be added) or does the Barbarian's TOTAL ARM drop to 2B regardless of what auras or equipment she has on?

Fighter "Dwarven Curse":
-Does the ATT vs. WILL at the end of the description count a check (as in the curse is a "taunt") or as an additional status effect (as in the curse is a "hex").


 
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Zachary Wolf
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roboraygun wrote:
questions for "Official FAQ"



I suggest adding a question that asks to clarify whether Both Teams can use the same model to roll initiative, or if the rule was intended to mean that you chose a model that you control. (which seems obvious to me, but since it isn't what is written, it may confuse some.)

I'd try to word the question - however your questions are SPOT on, and I congratulate you for your Clarity, and really getting to the meat of the point in question - in very few words!

That is such a wonderful skill! thanks for putting this list together!

zWolf -out.
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Emil Vincent Alonzo
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zwolf wrote:
roboraygun wrote:
questions for "Official FAQ"



I suggest adding a question that asks to clarify whether Both Teams can use the same model to roll initiative, or if the rule was intended to mean that you chose a model that you control. (which seems obvious to me, but since it isn't what is written, it may confuse some.)

I'd try to word the question - however your questions are SPOT on, and I congratulate you for your Clarity, and really getting to the meat of the point in question - in very few words!

That is such a wonderful skill! thanks for putting this list together!

zWolf -out.


Thanks man! Just figured it might be easier for Soda Pop to answer them all if I tried to summarize them in a quick and easy format.

Thanks too for all the insights you've been sharing with the forums here about the game.

I will totally add your addition to the list =) (though, I STILL dont have my own copy of the rulebook unfortunately so Im going off of the "vagueness" of the demo rule for initiative which I think is the same).
 
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Paul
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What effect does the list of monsters on the spawn points cards have?

Which marker is the Power Gauge marker? None match the description of the rule book.

How do you draw a line for line of sight across the hallway space?

Does equipment have to be equipped or converted at the end of the round or can it be held on for the end of another round or for when a hero is resurrected?

Can dead characters equip items?

Where are characters resurrected to?

Where does the Power Gauge start? On the 8 bit square or on the Circle above it?

Can the Dragon's spray attack be used to hit targets the other side of smoke if he cannot draw line of sight on any model because of the smoke?
 
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Bum Kim
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Initiative: P. 10 of rulebook: "Players now take turns activating their models, beginning with the player who won the initiative roll. If heroes win initiative, does this mean that the hero player who rolled for initiative MUST go first? Or can hero players determine who will go first? (This is assuming that the winner of initiative chooses to go first.)

AOE Targeting: P. 24 of rulebook: "Unless specified otherwise, area effects must target a model and cannot target unoccupied squares." Is targeting friendly figures allowed?
For example, let's say there is a group of kobolds that are enveloped in smoke and therefore Glimmerdusk Ranger can't get a bead on any of them. But if another hero moves to the edge of the smoke cloud and then Glimmerdusk centers her Sparkle Burst (Burst 1)on that hero, it could hit some of the figures enveloped in the cloud without hurting the hero since friendlies aren't hurt by Sparkle Burst.
Also, the Consul could do this with Starfire's Dragon Breath (Spray 5, Fire) by targeting a friendly instead of a stealthed hero, therefore getting around the Dexterity check. (Assuming a ruling that not every figure makes their own stealth check in an AOE attack.)

Edit: Added question:
AOE Wrap Around? P. 24 says, "Area effects are blocked by walls." This makes total sense but does it wrap around corners, columns, and other items that normally block LOS?
For example, let's say Starfire is sitting in the middle of the room where it has the two walls with candles on it. Heroes are cowardly hiding behind the wall so Starfire has no LOS except for one hero that peeks around the corner. Stafire sprays and in hitting the one hero, the AOE would hit the hiding heroes if the spray wraps around the wall. But if the spray is blocked by the wall, then the AOE is reduced.

Here's what I am talking about from Descent's breath template:

This would make sense with things like fire and not other AOE effects.
 
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Bum Kim
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roboraygun wrote:

-Can a character target diagonally around a corner? -No due to LoS (in rulebook?)


You might want to word this differently because it could be mistaken to mean you can't shoot a figure that is in the diagonal spot at the corner. You could say it this way:
"Does a corner wall block line of sight to diagonal squares? -No. But in order to target a model that is further around the corner with blocked line of sight, you must use the special ranged ability called "Hookshot.""

P. 23 of the rulebook shows a diagram showing LOS examples. It is clear that you can shoot diagonally right at the corner but since the Knucklehead to the right is one space further in the hallway, he is out of LOS.

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Chad Caughmann
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bumyong wrote:
the Consul could do this with Starfire's Dragon Breath (Spray 5, Fire) by targeting a friendly instead of a stealthed hero, therefore getting around the Dexterity check. (Assuming a ruling that not every figure makes their own stealth check in an AOE attack.)


I see what you are trying to get at there, but "Spray" is not considered a ranged effect, but rather an area effect. Stealth only affects 'ranged abilities', so therefore it does nothing against the Dragon's breath attack.

As for the initiative rolls...the hero/monster who's Will value you are using is simply a representative for their team. If the heroes win the roll, you can have ANY hero chose to go first if you wish...same as how you don't have to go first with whichever monster's Will value you used if they win the roll.
 
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Deke Stella
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Thanks for compiling these. We are going through these questions and others posted here and elsewhere to will compile an FAQ document. I'll make sure to release it here as soon as it is finished.

Happy Gaming!
Deke
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Jerry Hawthorne
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IMO these small changes represent my interpretation of the initiative procedure:

Rolling For Initiative
The Heroes and the Consul roll against each other to see who gets to activate their models first. Each side chooses one of their models that is on the table and rolls for initiative using its WILL. Whichever side rolls the most stars may choose to activate their models first or second. Ties always go to the Heroes.

Turns
Players take turns activating models starting with the side whose model won the initiative roll.
 
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Emil Vincent Alonzo
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Thanks for the additional questions people! I was gonna start compiling them into the main post, but realized it works just as fine too just to leave them in the comments =P.

OH and thanks to the people pulling the rules from the book too on some of these. Again, I dont my copy hasnt arrived yet, so I cant really check if any of these are in the official rulebook, so I totally appreciate that people are checking these questions out for everyone.

Thanks guys!
 
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Samuel Adams
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roboraygun wrote:



Hallways & Rooms:
-What constitutes a hallway? Are they only the squares connecting the tiles?
-What constitutes a room? If we go with the above question that the hallways are only those squares connecting the tiles then what about the long narrow 2 square corridors on some of the tiles? Are those their own room?
-Is room just a term for tiles? And if so, what happened when there is a hero in each room / tile and a boss needs to spawn?
-Do the arrows count as spaces or just indications of the next square on the next tile?



In regards to movement involving hallways...
The Rulebook wrote:

"Squares touching a Hallway are adjacent to the connected hallway squares."


To me it works like this: a hallway is nothing more than the arrows. For all intents and purposes the squares that touch the hallway arrows are connected. Movement across the hallway is just a single move like this



I think of them sorta like transition screens, or boss doors in Megaman.

My question is how does this work for large minis? Moving just one space would put them half in the room and half in the hall. I'm assiming they would just fully move into the next room, if there is room available. I don't recall reading anything of this in the rules.

Also I'm pretty sure LOS would work as it normally does when taking hallways into account. No reason for it not to.
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Bum Kim
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thetang22 wrote:
bumyong wrote:
the Consul could do this with Starfire's Dragon Breath (Spray 5, Fire) by targeting a friendly instead of a stealthed hero, therefore getting around the Dexterity check. (Assuming a ruling that not every figure makes their own stealth check in an AOE attack.)


I see what you are trying to get at there, but "Spray" is not considered a ranged effect, but rather an area effect. Stealth only affects 'ranged abilities', so therefore it does nothing against the Dragon's breath attack.


You are absolutely right. I never noticed that before. Thanks for the clarification on stealth.

I still wonder though about the question above that asks if Starfire can target something beyond a smoke cloud since for AOE attacks, you still need to target a model and not an empty square. I'm guessing that the smoke cloud will block line of sight beyond it so the answer would be no. But then, could you move a friendly figure in front of the smoke and target it, therefore hitting enemy figs beyond the smoke? It would be a pain since you would need to use an additional turn to set up the friendly figure but that's better than having no AOE attack at all.

thetang22 wrote:
As for the initiative rolls...the hero/monster who's Will value you are using is simply a representative for their team. If the heroes win the roll, you can have ANY hero chose to go first if you wish...same as how you don't have to go first with whichever monster's Will value you used if they win the roll.


Yeah, that's how we play it too. I wasn't entirely sure since the wording in the rulebook was unclear. Thanks for the input.
 
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bumyong wrote:
I still wonder though about the question above that asks if Starfire can target something beyond a smoke cloud since for AOE attacks, you still need to target a model and not an empty square. I'm guessing that the smoke cloud will block line of sight beyond it so the answer would be no. But then, could you move a friendly figure in front of the smoke and target it, therefore hitting enemy figs beyond the smoke? It would be a pain since you would need to use an additional turn to set up the friendly figure but that's better than having no AOE attack at all


You have it correct that the Smoke will be able to prevent a model being targeted by Dragon's Breath, since AoE abilities need a target. However...Smoke is NOT a wall...all it does is block line of sight. If you target a model in front of the smoke and the spray AoE goes into the smoke area, the model in the smoke will be hit by the spray. They just can't be the target of the spray.
 
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Paul
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From the rules:
Line of Sight
Models require line of sight to attack or effect a target with their abilities.


That answers the spray question above.

Someone needs to properly compile these questions and answers though, a thread with questions scattered about in it is useless to anyone who needs a FAQ.
 
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Haree78 wrote:
From the rules:
Line of Sight
Models require line of sight to attack or effect a target with their abilities.

That answers the spray question above.


I honestly believe this is a case of bad wording. I *think* the intended purpose of this rule should read:

"Models require line of sight to target a model with an attack or ability."

Frankly, it makes NO sense that an AoE ability could not effect a model in smoke, so long as the ability has a legal target outside of smoke. I'll be very interested to see the developers comment on this.
 
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Jerry Hawthorne
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thetang22 wrote:
Haree78 wrote:
From the rules:
Line of Sight
Models require line of sight to attack or effect a target with their abilities.

That answers the spray question above.


I honestly believe this is a case of bad wording. I *think* the intended purpose of this rule should read:

"Models require line of sight to target a model with an attack or ability."

Frankly, it makes NO sense that an AoE ability could not effect a model in smoke, so long as the ability has a legal target outside of smoke. I'll be very interested to see the developers comment on this.
I agree Chad.
 
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Emil Vincent Alonzo
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Haree78 wrote:


Someone needs to properly compile these questions and answers though, a thread with questions scattered about in it is useless to anyone who needs a FAQ.


If you scroll up a few comments Deke posted that they are working on an official FAQ (he's an employee at Soda Pop Miniatures).

I totally agree that an official FAQ is in order. There have been a lot of good points made by people on the forums but that's just it: these are all interpretations of how we read the rules and/or choose to play the game and although a lot of the suggestions make a lot of sense, they aren't necessarily the official rules.

This thread wasnt intended to be THE official FAQ, but rather just a collection of some of the questions I've seen floating around to make it easier for SPM to locate.

To be honest, Id encourage people to go with what works for their game anyway and was just more curious as to what SPM had to say about these questions. Heck, if they pull out a ruling about smoke blocking or not blocking an attack I don't like, then shoot! I'ma throw it out and play with my house rules anyway. It's not fun playing games where the game isn't balanced for both sides and I've had some of the most fun playing games where we've had to bend some rules to give the other side a fighting chance.

 
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Paul
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thetang22 wrote:
Haree78 wrote:
From the rules:
Line of Sight
Models require line of sight to attack or effect a target with their abilities.

That answers the spray question above.


I honestly believe this is a case of bad wording. I *think* the intended purpose of this rule should read:

"Models require line of sight to target a model with an attack or ability."

Frankly, it makes NO sense that an AoE ability could not effect a model in smoke, so long as the ability has a legal target outside of smoke. I'll be very interested to see the developers comment on this.


While I agree with something like the Dragon's spray I wonder if it was originally worded like that because they intended auras such as the Paladin aura or the Dragon Priest to require line of sight?
 
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Chad Caughmann
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Haree78 wrote:
[q="thetang22"]While I agree with something like the Dragon's spray I wonder if it was originally worded like that because they intended auras such as the Paladin aura or the Dragon Priest to require line of sight?


This is just my opinion, but I personally don't think so. They go out of their way to state that walls block Area Effects if I remember correctly....and I think they would also state something about Line of Sight on that same part (other than the previous line of sight wording...because I personally think that is a mistake anyway).
 
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Justin Jackson
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Do special actions stack?
Iron Halo would be way too powerful if it did, but it does not say in the rules that it does not. One thing though is mob specifically states that it does stack so i would think any special action that does not say it stacks does not stack.
 
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Paul
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It says in the rules, page 24:
If a model is affected by two area of effect abilities simultaneously, the effects are considered cumulative as long as the abilities are different--even if their effects are the same.

It then gives an example to show 2 of the same ability not stacking.
 
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Sergio Mateos Maroto
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* Kickback

The kickback ability only affects melee combat?

Common sense tells me yes, but the rulebook does not specify it anywhere.

Likewise, the "Reach" ability it's a melee combat at rangue 2. For its special feature, I understand that you can apply "kickback" but not "stealth".

* Weapons

The melee weapons (swords, axes, skimers, etc) that improve the atack... also improve the ranged or magic atack?

Again, common sense has to assume not, but would be well clear.

PostData = Don't worry about "Iron Halo" ability... The barbarian, with a pair of armor loot, is much harder!
 
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Justin Jackson
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cedar rapids
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Haree78 wrote:
It says in the rules, page 24:
If a model is affected by two area of effect abilities simultaneously, the effects are considered cumulative as long as the abilities are different--even if their effects are the same.

It then gives an example to show 2 of the same ability not stacking.


Thanks man!
 
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Emil Vincent Alonzo
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UPDATED 12/4: Still waiting for my copy to come in the mail, but I got a chance to play a friends copy yesterday so updating this list. I tried to clean up some of the questions that had pretty clear rules listed in the rulebook and added a bunch more that we had while playing. I also cut and pasted most of the questions that everyone has been asking on this thread so they were all in one place.

Thanks!
 
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