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Subject: Democrats dump white working class for 2012 [NYT/CNN opinion pieces] rss

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http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/27/the-future...

http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/

Excerpts from NYT:

Quote:
For decades, Democrats have suffered continuous and increasingly severe losses among white voters. But preparations by Democratic operatives for the 2012 election make it clear for the first time that the party will explicitly abandon the white working class.

All pretense of trying to win a majority of the white working class has been effectively jettisoned in favor of cementing a center-left coalition made up, on the one hand, of voters who have gotten ahead on the basis of educational attainment — professors, artists, designers, editors, human resources managers, lawyers, librarians, social workers, teachers and therapists — and a second, substantial constituency of lower-income voters who are disproportionately African-American and Hispanic.

Quote:
In the United States, Teixeira noted, “the Republican Party has become the party of the white working class,” while in Europe, many working-class voters who had been the core of Social Democratic parties have moved over to far right parties, especially those with anti-immigration platforms.

Quote:
As a practical matter, the Obama campaign and, for the present, the Democratic Party, have laid to rest all consideration of reviving the coalition nurtured and cultivated by Franklin D. Roosevelt. The New Deal Coalition — which included unions, city machines, blue-collar workers, farmers, blacks, people on relief, and generally non-affluent progressive intellectuals — had the advantage of economic coherence. It received support across the board from voters of all races and religions in the bottom half of the income distribution, the very coherence the current Democratic coalition lacks.


Excerpts from CNN:

Quote:
This is pretty stunning. Republicans were traditionally the party of the wealthy, while Democrats were the friend of the working man.

It was Franklin D. Roosevelt who put together the New Deal coalition that included unions, blue-collar workers, farmers, blacks, people on government assistance and intellectuals without money.

Fast forward to today - it's interesting that at a time when unemployment is holding at 9%, the Democratic Party is choosing to give up on these core voters and go in another direction.

Meanwhile, a recent poll spells trouble for President Barack Obama when it comes to blue-collar Democrats. The CNN/Opinion Research Corp. survey shows nearly half of all white Democrats with no college education say they don't want Obama heading the party's ticket.
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Eh, what can you do?
 
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I know several people in these professions

Quote:
professors, artists, designers, editors, human resources managers, lawyers, librarians, social workers, teachers and therapist


who will likely not be voting Democrat in 2012. Looks like they have their work cut out for themselves
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SpaceGhost wrote:


who will likely not be voting Democrat in 2012.


I'd be right there with them if there was an alternative I could live with. Which at the moment there's not. I'm betting I am not alone.
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jarredscott78 wrote:
Meanwhile, a recent poll spells trouble for President Barack Obama when it comes to blue-collar Democrats. The CNN/Opinion Research Corp. survey shows nearly half of all white Democrats with no college education say they don't want Obama heading the party's ticket.
There are still more than enough white southern Democrat voters (read: Old South racists) in existence from a time when Republican candidates were dismissed in the south as bankers and stockjobbers. It's interesting how political parties change over time.

 
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I think it is more correct to say that the white working class dumped Democrats. Not sure why they think they are treated better by Republicans.
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rshipley wrote:
I think it is more correct to say that the white working class dumped Democrats. Not sure why they think they are treated better by Republicans.


That's pretty much my take, only extended both ways. Both parties put pressure on individual members to promote issues that are core to a platform to get that party elected into a majority. However, historically, many of the issues that have affected working class Americans, white, black or brown, have been championed by the left, and the right has made a lot of headway into that demographic with hand-waving about job creators and trickling down and immigration, not to mention the social issues like gay marriage and abortion. You win by getting support from your side and from a chunk of the center, but the center can't hold once you plant flags on any of those issues, as this administration has done.

The administration could win without going after white working class voters if people were interested in energetically supporting it, but this is not 2008. The sense that Obama is simply GW Bush 2.0 is kind of pervasive.
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Cafferty's assertion that Democrats are giving up on their core voters is kind of silly, because Democrats are still backed strongly by the working class. The problem with this kind of analysis is that it ignores the fact that the working class has more people in it than, you know, white folks.
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I don't personally care what the Democrats or Republicans do. I'm still voting for the candidate I agree with the most.
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rshipley wrote:
I think it is more correct to say that the white working class dumped Democrats. Not sure why they think they are treated better by Republicans.
The Republicans have long realized that they can get votes by telling the white working class: "What those overeducated-types believe are your ignorant prejudices, we see as good family values."
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JoshBot wrote:
rshipley wrote:
I think it is more correct to say that the white working class dumped Democrats. Not sure why they think they are treated better by Republicans.
The Republicans have long realized that they can get votes by telling the white working class: "What those overeducated-types believe are your ignorant prejudices, we see as good family values."


The other thing they pull, that I can't understand anyone falls for, is "We are looking out for your boss, because when your boss is successful, so are you".
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Very interesting. Thanks for the thread.


This trend makes a lot of things clear to me now. Crazy, but clear.

For some time now the Republican Party has seemed to me the party of greed and ignorance. These articles confirm it. The corporations and the uneducated - that's a rocking coalition!
 
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tesuji wrote:

For some time now the Republican Party has seemed to me the party of greed and ignorance. These articles confirm it.

LOL! Glad to hear of another preconception confirmed. We are truly changing hearts and minds around here.
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jarredscott78 wrote:
tesuji wrote:

For some time now the Republican Party has seemed to me the party of greed and ignorance. These articles confirm it.

LOL! Glad to hear of another preconception confirmed. We are truly changing hearts and minds around here.

Well, it will be interesting to see what things look like in 2020. Will the white working class feel they are better off after, say, eight years of of Mitt Romney and the Tea Party.

They still won't have health care.
Their manufacturing jobs won't be coming back.
They will feel relatively poorer, as the income gap continues to widen.
Their kids will be able to afford college even less, as govt aid is cut further.
The rest of the world will hate us more, for our stonewalling on fixing global warming.
Still-underfunded science research will ensure that we continue to lose competitiveness.
Still-underfunded infrastructure maintenance, education, prisons, police, etc will ensure things are worse in general.
But at least we'll have guns. And the corporatocracy to take care of us.
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Note that having the Democrats leaving the white working class to its own devices is not the same as the Republicans becoming their party, as the excerpt implies.
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an excerpt from "So Long and Thanks For All The Fish" by Douglass Adams:

Ford Prefect explaining to Arthur Dent about why a robot said "take me to your lizards".

"It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see..."

"You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?"

"No," said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, "nothing so simple. Nothing anything like to straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people."

"Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy."

"I did," said ford. "It is."

"So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't the people get rid of the lizards?"

"It honestly doesn't occur to them," said Ford. "They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want."

"You mean they actually vote for the lizards?"

"Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."

"But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"

"Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in. Got any gin?"

"What?"

"I said," said Ford, with an increasing air of urgency creeping into his voice, "have you got any gin?"

"I'll look. Tell me about the lizards."

Ford shrugged again.

"Some people say that the lizards are the best thing that ever happened to them," he said. "They're completely wrong of course, completely and utterly wrong, but someone's got to say it."
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Republicans have little to do with any of these issues.....

They still won't have health care.: This problem won't be resolved until everyone is either: (a) going to realize that this is worth having and expensive (taxes on the rich won't cover it) and all are willing to share in the pain, or (b) it is just a high-minded idea but when it comes down to cost, people aren't really willing to sacrifice in terms of evidence-based-medicine, etc.

Their manufacturing jobs won't be coming back.: Nothing is bringing these jobs back given the global economy.

They will feel relatively poorer, as the income gap continues to widen.: This will continue to occur until people realize the heart of the economic problem is the lack of skilled labor. Nothing will change this until people are willing to be educated in areas that are in demand.

Their kids will be able to afford college even less, as govt aid is cut further.: This is more of a supply/demand issue. Most colleges are "busting" at the seems and have record enrollment. This is related to the above point in that parents and college aged kids need to realize that not any old degree will get the job done. College is very affordable if you get a degree in a field that is in demand.

Gay marriage and abortion will still be around.: This is a cultural shift -- nothing is going to change the more social liberal views on these issues.

The economy will still suck, as we pay for all the retired baby boomers and fossil fuel energy is even more expensive with no renewable plan B.: The economy will suck until we address the ratio of skilled labor to unskilled labor. There is no solution that will be able to fix the economy without dealing with this.

China will be that much stronger, in this the China Century.: This is independent of Republican or Democrat. If anything, Republicans are taking a stronger stance on currency manipulation.

The rest of the world will hate us more, for our stonewalling on fixing global warming.: Unlikely to happen. As the world economy continues to spiral into decline, affordable solutions become more distant. Furthermore, the desire to address the problem will decrease.

Still-underfunded science research will ensure that we continue to lose competitiveness.: NSF funding is up this year in a Republican controlled Congress.

Still-underfunded infrastructure maintenance, education, prisons, police, etc will ensure things are worse in general.: Many voters in states are unwilling to vote for local tax increases to pay for this. Apparently it is the will of the people...

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SpaceGhost wrote:
Republicans have little to do with any of these issues.....

They still won't have health care.: This problem won't be resolved until everyone is either: (a) going to realize that this is worth having and expensive (taxes on the rich won't cover it) and all are willing to share in the pain, or (b) it is just a high-minded idea but when it comes down to cost, people aren't really willing to sacrifice in terms of evidence-based-medicine, etc.

Their manufacturing jobs won't be coming back.: Nothing is bringing these jobs back given the global economy.

They will feel relatively poorer, as the income gap continues to widen.: This will continue to occur until people realize the heart of the economic problem is the lack of skilled labor. Nothing will change this until people are willing to be educated in areas that are in demand.

Their kids will be able to afford college even less, as govt aid is cut further.: This is more of a supply/demand issue. Most colleges are "busting" at the seems and have record enrollment. This is related to the above point in that parents and college aged kids need to realize that not any old degree will get the job done. College is very affordable if you get a degree in a field that is in demand.

Gay marriage and abortion will still be around.: This is a cultural shift -- nothing is going to change the more social liberal views on these issues.

The economy will still suck, as we pay for all the retired baby boomers and fossil fuel energy is even more expensive with no renewable plan B.: The economy will suck until we address the ratio of skilled labor to unskilled labor. There is no solution that will be able to fix the economy without dealing with this.

China will be that much stronger, in this the China Century.: This is independent of Republican or Democrat. If anything, Republicans are taking a stronger stance on currency manipulation.

The rest of the world will hate us more, for our stonewalling on fixing global warming.: Unlikely to happen. As the world economy continues to spiral into decline, affordable solutions become more distant. Furthermore, the desire to address the problem will decrease.

Still-underfunded science research will ensure that we continue to lose competitiveness.: NSF funding is up this year in a Republican controlled Congress.

Still-underfunded infrastructure maintenance, education, prisons, police, etc will ensure things are worse in general.: Many voters in states are unwilling to vote for local tax increases to pay for this. Apparently it is the will of the people...



TLDR (too long, didn't read): Yah, this stuff is all true, but don't blame the republicans.
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tesuji wrote:
jarredscott78 wrote:
tesuji wrote:

For some time now the Republican Party has seemed to me the party of greed and ignorance. These articles confirm it.

LOL! Glad to hear of another preconception confirmed. We are truly changing hearts and minds around here.

Well, it will be interesting to see what things look like in 2020. Will the white working class feel they are better off after, say, eight years of of Mitt Romney and the Tea Party.

They still won't have health care.
Their manufacturing jobs won't be coming back.
They will feel relatively poorer, as the income gap continues to widen.
Their kids will be able to afford college even less, as govt aid is cut further.
The rest of the world will hate us more, for our stonewalling on fixing global warming.
Still-underfunded science research will ensure that we continue to lose competitiveness.
Still-underfunded infrastructure maintenance, education, prisons, police, etc will ensure things are worse in general.
But at least we'll have guns. And the corporatocracy to take care of us.

That's a creepy trick.


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jarredscott78 wrote:
tesuji wrote:
jarredscott78 wrote:
tesuji wrote:

For some time now the Republican Party has seemed to me the party of greed and ignorance. These articles confirm it.

LOL! Glad to hear of another preconception confirmed. We are truly changing hearts and minds around here.

Well, it will be interesting to see what things look like in 2020. Will the white working class feel they are better off after, say, eight years of of Mitt Romney and the Tea Party.

They still won't have health care.
Their manufacturing jobs won't be coming back.
They will feel relatively poorer, as the income gap continues to widen.
Their kids will be able to afford college even less, as govt aid is cut further.
The rest of the world will hate us more, for our stonewalling on fixing global warming.
Still-underfunded science research will ensure that we continue to lose competitiveness.
Still-underfunded infrastructure maintenance, education, prisons, police, etc will ensure things are worse in general.
But at least we'll have guns. And the corporatocracy to take care of us.

That's a creepy trick.



Not sure what you mean by creepy trick.
Some of these things would be due to Republicans, some to general trends. My point was, will they be better off it R's take over for the next 8 years?

My original "Republicans are greedy/ignorant" was of course an unfair broad generalization. There is at least one more group of Rs: Most of the R's I know are R because they are social conservatives, who have been apparently brianwashed by the economic nonsense that is also part of the R party:
"Trickle down."
"Poor people are lazy."
"Immigrants are destroying our country."
"Corporations need to be unregulated."

Fantasies.
 
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Poor people are lazier on average. I'd bet Chad agrees with me on this, which necessarily makes it true.
 
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jarredscott78 wrote:
Poor people are lazier on average. I'd bet Chad agrees with me on this, which necessarily makes it true.

Debatable.

Sorry if I offended anyone. Just telling it like I see it.

I'm in a grouchy mood today so probably shouldn't be posting today... Later
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I agree with some of your points, and disagree with most, but this is just ridiculous.

SpaceGhost wrote:

Still-underfunded science research will ensure that we continue to lose competitiveness.: NSF funding is up this year in a Republican controlled Congress.



NSF funding changes, according to a report in Science:
Quote:
Its overall allocation of $52.7 billion for all the agencies under its jurisdiction was $626 million less than the panel received in 2011, and a whopping $5 billion below the president's 2012 request for those agencies. She was especially troubled by her inability to expand what she called "science and innovation" across the federal government. Along with the cuts to NSF, the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), based in her home state of Maryland, would see its budget drop by roughly 10%, to $680 million. And the Technology Innovation Program, long a Republican target but previously protected by Democrats, would be eliminated, as would the Baldrige program to reward industrial excellence.

"We've always tried to follow the allocations in the America COMPETES Act," she explained, referring to 2007 and 2010 laws that authorize research and education programs at NSF, NASA, and NIST. "But while COMPETES calls for increases at NSF and NIST, we've had to make cuts." A few minutes earlier, Mikulski noted with shock that, "for the first time as chair, I've eliminated programs."


The NSF is the primary governmental source of undergraduate research training, as well as most non-health related science research. The DoD also funds very specific types of research across many disciplines. The NIH is what funds most disease research, and it has seen massive cuts since 2000. When I started grad school, there was funding for the top 23% of grants submitted. That number has dwindled to single digits.

Anyone who thinks reducing funding for science and technology will have no affect on our future competitiveness lives in fantasy land. Anyone who thinks that the current species of Republican will promote direct investment in an open research system is either being credulous or disingenuous
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I was just going off of this, what I received from NSF in my email

Quote:

NSF GETS UNEXPECTED BOOST FOR FY12; CENSUS, BJS AND ERS SEE DEEP CUTS
A House and Senate panel unveiled Congress’s final FY12 budgets for three of the 12 appropriations bills. NSF received an unexpected increase of 2.5% over it FY11 level while Census was funded at 14% below its FY12 request level; BJS was cut by 25% from FY11 and ERS was cut by 5% (from FY11). NASS also sees an unexpected increase while BEA cut by 1%. Read more.


The read more link provides this

Quote:

Congress appears poised to send its first set of fiscal year 2012 (FY12) appropriations bills to the President for his signature this weekend. Combining the appropriations bills for Agriculture/FDA, Commerce/Justice/Science (CJS) and Transportation/ Housing and Urban Development, the so-called minibus contains the final levels for NSF, Census, BEA, BJS, BTS, ERS and NASS.

The minibus provides relatively good news for NSF and NASS, funding both agencies above their FY11 levels and above both the House and Senate levels. ($7.033 billion for NSF and $158.6 million for NASS. See links below for more details.)

Unfortunately, the bill funds the U.S. Census Bureau at only $888 million, $137 million below the FY12 request. The impacts of this deep cut are yet to be fully determined but likely impacts are a scaled-back Economic Census (e.g., no Survey of Business Owners), scaled-back 2020 decennial census research and planning, and few 2010 decennial census products.

The minibus conference report transfers $55 million to the Periodic Censuses and Programs from the Census Working Capital fund, seemingly to make up for the shortfall from the Senate mark. Such a transfer however will not alleviate program cuts since the Working Capital fund pays for such essentials as salaries, IT, HR, and security.

The minibus also contains large cuts for the Economic Research Service (down 5% from FY11) and the Bureau of Justice Statistics (down 25% from FY11). BTS is largely flatfunded while BEA's budget is cut by about 1% to $92.2 million.

The other parts of the federal government will continue to operate on another Continuing Resolution into December.


I am assuming that the difference is due to what we are counting "under NSF". Personally, I think we should be dumping money like fools into NSF and NIH; however, that could be construed as self-interest as that s where I get most of my funding (although, I think it is the smart thing to do -- see my related points about lack of skilled labor).
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Quote:

Anyone who thinks reducing funding for science and technology will have no affect on our future competitiveness lives in fantasy land. Anyone who thinks that the current species of Republican will promote direct investment in an open research system is either being credulous or disingenuous


I agree with this....however, this statement

Quote:
When I started grad school, there was funding for the top 23% of grants submitted. That number has dwindled to single digits.


can in no way prove your point. There has also been a groundswell of grant applications due to state budget decreases and salary freezes. In fact, our university has built in F&A incentives as "bonus" pay to those who get grants.

EDIT: Additionally, I am also fairly younger and accept this as "how it is" in terms of competition. It has been interesting to see the dismay in senior researchers complain about how they have been grant funded their entire career and now are losing out -- a lot of assessment bias involved around this issue, some due to truth and some due to the "wounding" of egos.
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