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Subject: Fading: when is the "can't remove counter" clause checked? rss

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Eric O. LEBIGOT
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The rules for Fading N read
Quote:
"This permanent enters the battlefield with N fade counters on it" and "At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a fade counter from this permanent. If you can't, sacrifice the permanent."
When is the counter removed? Does this work like this: beginning of upkeep => triggered ability "remove a fade counter from this permanent. If you can't, sacrifice the permanent." goes on the stack? That is, some effect could in principle put back a fade counter on the card before the triggered ability resolves, so that the permanent would not be sacrificed, right?
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Jeff Thompson
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Correct.

No instructions are followed when the triggered ability goes on the stack, it goes on word for word. The instructions are followed exactly at the time it resolves.

(The biggest exception to this is the word Target. A Target must be defined before the ability goes on the stack. There are probably others I can't think of right now. But the interesting thing to remember is the word "Choose" is followed during resolution, so technically the "choice" does not need to be made until it resolves which could make a big difference.)
 
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Matt Olson
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Yes. It'd have to be an instant, flash or permanent ability (like contagion clasp).
 
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Eric O. LEBIGOT
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Tompy wrote:
Correct.

No instructions are followed when the triggered ability goes on the stack, it goes on word for word. The instructions are followed exactly at the time it resolves.
Thanks.

Quote:
But the interesting thing to remember is the word "Choose" is followed during resolution, so technically the "choice" does not need to be made until it resolves which could make a big difference.)
I'm not sure I'm getting this; in fact, "modal" spells require choices to be made upon casting (not resolving):
Quote:
700.2. A spell or ability is modal if it has two or more options preceded by "Choose one --," "Choose two --," "Choose one or both --," or "[a specified player] chooses one --." Each of those options is a mode.

700.2a. The controller of a modal spell or activated ability chooses the mode(s) as part of casting that spell or activating that ability. (…)

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Andrés Santiago Pérez-Bergquist
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On a side note, this is one of the functional differences between Fading and its revised version Vanishing. Fading tries to remove a counter every upkeep, and if it can't, you sacrifice the card. Vanishing tries to remove a counter every upkeep and when you remove the last one, you sacrifice the card. If you use an effect like Stifle to counter the sacrifice trigger, Fading will still try to remove a counter every turn in the future, and you only bought yourself a turn. Vanishing sees no counters to remove, though, and you can keep the card forever.
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