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Combat Commander: Europe» Forums » Rules

Subject: Moving without moving rss

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Can you Order a unit to MOVE and not actually expend movement points so he qualifies for the ASSAULT FIRE action, and then subsequently toss a SUSTAINED FIRE Action on the pile?
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Troy Hughes
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Quote:
O14.4-Once an Order is given, at least one
of the units activated for that Order must
physically carry it out.


If a Move Order is given, at least one activated
unit must physically cross a hexside
into another hex - you couldn’t give a Move
Order for the sole purpose of playing an
Assault Fire Action, for example.


I can't tell you how many times I've wished I could do what you describe!



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Mike Szarka
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When it is your turn to send a VASSAL move, the wait is excruciating. When it's my turn, well, I've been busy.
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markgravitygood wrote:
Can you Order a unit to MOVE and not actually expend movement points so he qualifies for the ASSAULT FIRE action, and then subsequently toss a SUSTAINED FIRE Action on the pile?


Nope. If you give a unit a move order he has to physically move at least one space. However you can use the Assault Fire and Sustained Fire actions prior to leaving the hex he is in/
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Ok, so that is sort of like guns blazing as you're running out of the building to cross the street!

Thanks!

p.s.: That rules quote would be soooo much more useful under O21. Move. I'm sure I can imply it from what is there but it seems like such a common tactic to want to try especially if you are up at the front.
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Chuck Meeks
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Remember though, If you activate more than one unit at a time to move only ONE of them has to actually move.
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Brent Pollock
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...which Trenches come in handy for. Most fun I've had with them is using them to shuttle down and Assault Fire a FT, then scuttle back out of the way, all without allowing Op Fire.
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mcszarka wrote:
markgravitygood wrote:
Can you Order a unit to MOVE and not actually expend movement points so he qualifies for the ASSAULT FIRE action, and then subsequently toss a SUSTAINED FIRE Action on the pile?


Nope. If you give a unit a move order he has to physically move at least one space. However you can use the Assault Fire and Sustained Fire actions prior to leaving the hex he is in/


So tactically, I can play a MOVE order and an ASSAULT FIRE action and SUSTAINED FIRE action, blaze away without moving out of the hex I started in, then move away?

Sounds like CC:E's version of skulking.

So then, how does CROSSFIRE for the player not on move work in that situation? Does he get the shot in? I would assume yes for the same reasons since you've "activated" the unit to MOVE.
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Brent Pollock
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IIRC, Crossfire's verbiage mentions "moving"(i.e. new hex but not advancing) rather than "Move Order".
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Justin Heimburger
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markgravitygood wrote:
mcszarka wrote:
markgravitygood wrote:
Can you Order a unit to MOVE and not actually expend movement points so he qualifies for the ASSAULT FIRE action, and then subsequently toss a SUSTAINED FIRE Action on the pile?


Nope. If you give a unit a move order he has to physically move at least one space. However you can use the Assault Fire and Sustained Fire actions prior to leaving the hex he is in/


So tactically, I can play a MOVE order and an ASSAULT FIRE action and SUSTAINED FIRE action, blaze away without moving out of the hex I started in, then move away?

Sounds like CC:E's version of skulking.

So then, how does CROSSFIRE for the player not on move work in that situation? Does he get the shot in? I would assume yes for the same reasons since you've "activated" the unit to MOVE.


Op fire only comes into play when the other player actually expends MPs. So you could use Crossfire once a unit actually changes hexes.
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Jacovis
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markgravitygood wrote:

So then, how does CROSSFIRE for the player not on move work in that situation? Does he get the shot in? I would assume yes for the same reasons since you've "activated" the unit to MOVE.


The inactive player only gets to op-fire when a new hex is entered by the active player's MOVE order, so Crossfire couldn't be used until the player could op-fire anyway.

Quote:
O21.3 Opportunity Fire & Movement
The inactive player may use Op Fire [A33]
against the active player’s moving units each
time they enter a new hex.


Quote:
Crossfire may only be played just prior to the
player making a Fire Attack Roll, and only
when firing at one or more moving [O21] units.


The units aren't moving until they actually move into a hex. Before that, they are simply activated to move.

Cheers!

Jacovis
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Richard Pardoe
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markgravitygood wrote:
p.s.: That rules quote would be soooo much more useful under O21. Move.


While the example given is specific to MOVE, the actual rule (O14.4) applies to ALL orders in the game, including ADVANCE, FIRE, ARTILLERY REQUEST, etc. It avoids playing a a card for an order, doing nothing to get a free "discard".
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Hmmm. So, the only way to get ARTILLERY REQUEST in FAT LIPKI (Scenario 1) out of my hand is either as part of the O15 Pass or play the action on the card legally?
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Richard Pardoe
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Correct.

And should you get a Radio during the course of the scenario (e.g. Reinforcements Event) you can then play the order legally as well.
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Longtime Gamer
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markgravitygood wrote:
mcszarka wrote:
markgravitygood wrote:
Can you Order a unit to MOVE and not actually expend movement points so he qualifies for the ASSAULT FIRE action, and then subsequently toss a SUSTAINED FIRE Action on the pile?


Nope. If you give a unit a move order he has to physically move at least one space. However you can use the Assault Fire and Sustained Fire actions prior to leaving the hex he is in/


So tactically, I can play a MOVE order and an ASSAULT FIRE action and SUSTAINED FIRE action, blaze away without moving out of the hex I started in, then move away?

Sounds like CC:E's version of skulking.


I've used it quite effectively (if I have the cards, of course) when I know I'm about to be Assaulted by a larger force. I blast away using every legal card, then moved back, preferably into deep cover to mitigate any op-fire. I should mention that I attempt to move out of the LOS of my opponent's unhappy assault force eliminating any chance of Op-Fire.
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Confusion Under Fire
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hexagony wrote:


I've used it quite effectively (if I have the cards, of course) when I know I'm about to be Assaulted by a larger force. I blast away using every legal card, then moved back, preferably into deep cover to mitigate any op-fire. I should mention that I attempt to move out of the LOS of my opponent's unhappy assault force eliminating any chance of Op-Fire.


Remember that as the attacker moving, even out of LOS of the enemy, can move you into wire or mines.

There is an instance where a player can play a move card and not move any of his units.

A player plays a move order and activates one broken unit followed immediately by an assault action. The current Fire/Defend brings up an event or sniper trigger which eliminates the yet to be moved unit.
 
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John McLintock
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whatambush wrote:
hexagony wrote:


I've used it quite effectively (if I have the cards, of course) when I know I'm about to be Assaulted by a larger force. I blast away using every legal card, then moved back, preferably into deep cover to mitigate any op-fire. I should mention that I attempt to move out of the LOS of my opponent's unhappy assault force eliminating any chance of Op-Fire.


Remember that as the attacker moving, even out of LOS of the enemy, can move you into wire or mines.

There is an instance where a player can play a move card and not move any of his units.

A player plays a move order and activates one broken unit followed immediately by an assault action.
The current Fire/Defend brings up an event or sniper trigger which eliminates the yet to be moved unit.

I'm not sure about this. IIRC no CC:E units have boxed FP on their broken side, so this Order/Action combo isn't possible.
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Confusion Under Fire
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JMcL63 wrote:
whatambush wrote:
hexagony wrote:


I've used it quite effectively (if I have the cards, of course) when I know I'm about to be Assaulted by a larger force. I blast away using every legal card, then moved back, preferably into deep cover to mitigate any op-fire. I should mention that I attempt to move out of the LOS of my opponent's unhappy assault force eliminating any chance of Op-Fire.


Remember that as the attacker moving, even out of LOS of the enemy, can move you into wire or mines.

There is an instance where a player can play a move card and not move any of his units.

A player plays a move order and activates one broken unit followed immediately by an assault action.
The current Fire/Defend brings up an event or sniper trigger which eliminates the yet to be moved unit.

I'm not sure about this. IIRC no CC:E units have boxed FP on their broken side, so this Order/Action combo isn't possible.


Yes you are correct John.
Let me rethink this one
A full strength unit that plays a Move order followed by an Assault action becomes broken due to the defender getting a sniper event. The attacker becomes broken and because of the low movement allowance can not move due to the terrain.
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Russ Williams
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Another way assault fire can occur with no movement: as part of resolving assault fire before the physical movement, a blaze appears in such a way that eliminates the unit ordered to move.
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Chester
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So really, there must be "intent to move" even though there are occasions where a unit cannot actually fulfill that if they assault fire first.
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Jeff Binning
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Komodo wrote:
Remember though, If you activate more than one unit at a time to move only ONE of them has to actually move.


Just to clarify, as long as one activated unit moves, another unit activated with that same Movement Order could execute an Assault Fire action without ever moving, correct? The rules are clear, but there are many details to get my head around.
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Chick Lewis
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Correct, Colorado_Jeff.
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