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Sergeants Miniatures Game: Day of Days» Forums » Rules

Subject: combat contact rss

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Garyp
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On page 12 it states: "A Soldier that is in base to base contact with another Soldier using the Shooting Arc of the soldier's base is in Combat Contact." And, on page 11 it says "Soldiers must Fight at the conclusion of each Action (card) if they are in Combat Contact". Back on page 12 it goes on to say "Soldiers in combat contact may only change facing if they play a MOVE action."

So if my figure is contacted on a rear edge that figure is NOT in combat contact? and cannot fight? In our learning game we had a figure contacted in the rear with no move actions available for the reminder of the turn. So he stood there getting hit without response???? As luck would have it he survived 2 rounds of unopposed fighting but them died in the 3rd round.

At that point we looked bemused, packed up the game and I will likley not be able to get my opponent to play again - bugger! What made it worse is that the original MOVE action allowed the attacking Soldier figure to move twice, the first move to the rear of my Soldier figure and the second into combat contact at which point my guy was locked in.

Did we miss something or was this an example of the heroics the game is designed to simulate. Gary
 
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Jerry Tresman
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Page 12 of rules 1.53 V2 (posted in files)
... If there are still Soldiers surviving, they remain locked in combat through the next Phase card and, after all phase actions are complete, renew the combat...

So you commence combat if soldiers move into combat contact at the end of an action card. BUT you continue at the end of a phase , which is the completion of one story card by each player. ONCE per phase not per players action card.

In your case the soldier may have survived through the turn to play a move action.

Remember this represents blindsiding your opponent and struggling to kill him before he can fight back.

There is a tendancy to rush into combat contact in early playings of SMG, when often it is better to take your time or conversely not to expose your self to being taken from behind.

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Garyp
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Thanks for the response Jerry.

It seems to me that page 11 first sentence under "Fight": "Soldiers must Fight at the conclusion of each Action (card) if they are in Combat contact." is quite explicit and pretty much a direct contradiction of what you are saying above.

I can see your interpretation btw but this appears to be an error in the rules or some very bad wording. Not trying to be difficult or nitpicking - just want to play as intended. The rules appear to be very straight forward actually, they probably just need to be reviewed by someone not so close to the game design. Hopefully all this feedback will end up in the next iteration.

Gary


 
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Jerry Tresman
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Yes this one needs a ruling. I now play continue the fight at the end of a phase unles anyone joins the fight. The new guys preffererd that to how I was originally playing , which was after each action card. As you can imagine with 4 player games its a huge difference.


I have a feeling this was raised previously.

 
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Jeff Billings
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Page 7, Sequence of play, section 6

6. Players resolve the Action Cards played in step 5 in the order displayed on the
Phase Cards (left to right). If players are taking the same action in the same
phase use Initiative to resolve who takes the action first. At the end of each
Phase, Soldiers in Combat Contact (see Combat Contact Page 12 under the
MOVE action for an explanation) with enemy Soldiers Fight.

Jerry is correct and the wording will be changed to read as above in the next rules release. When explaining the game I often use the terms Phase and "action" to mean the same thing - however they absolutely do not. That is just the designer being imprecise with my terms. Most of the mixed terms have been cleaned up from the rules. This case is a place where I missed the wording.
 
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Martin Gallo
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Uhm, by phase are you referring to a story card or one of the actions on the story card (thus two phases per story card)?

For what this is worth, I thought the inability to 'freely' turn to face the attacker AFTER the one free attack was a bit silly. Allowing the soldier who sneaks up on another soldier getting one free attack is no problem for me. I know the game currently does not have any "reaction" process and I think this may be the flaw that breaks the game for me. I really need to play it more before I decide but I am tempted to allow any soldier attacked a "free reaction" to pivot to face the attack at the end of the Action Segment (phase??).
 
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Garyp
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martimer wrote:
Uhm, by phase are you referring to a story card or one of the actions on the story card (thus two phases per story card)?


I believe the sequence is:

One TURN is Three PHASEs (Story cards) is up to Two ACTIONs (Action cards).

I think the sequence of a turn is quite clear in the rules but there is a certain amount of inconsistency in the use of these terms throughout the rules that causes the initial confusion. We played that combat was resolved at the end of each Action (Action Card) as per page 11 (under "Fight") of the rules - my soldier was contacted after the second Action of the first Phase of the Turn - with no more Move Actions in either of the 2 remaining Phases, he stood there unable to respond for potentially 4 Actions - he was eliminated during the 3rd Action - we were somewhat disppointed by how this worked but, like you, need to play more to see how this all fits together. The situation was particularly worrying as the soldier that contacted my figure moved twice, strolling past my guy to his rear and then moved in a straight line as required by the rules into my guy's rear to set up the situation. My other nearby soldiers, with no Move option and no Shoot until the second Action of the third Phase, also stood and "watched". Some sort of reaction mechanic would have been good.

Like you I am disappointed that there is no reaction mechanic in the game. Having Action cards would seem to make a Reaction Action very easy to impliment? - and would add another element of hand management to the game. Having a very simple "I do everything, then you do everything" system is I think rather outdated and lacks any real innovation and makes this just another igyg game - hohum.

The potential is here but at the end of the day just pretty bits will not keep me coming back - the game is the thing!






 
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Jerry Tresman
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ONE Turn is Three Phases(3 story cards), one Phase is an action card per player.

AT this scale and time frame I go you go is fine as the system is simulating the sequencing and the fact that the soldiers act as a group (hopefully).Each action card is only a few seconds to a minute.

Normally soldiers willwait, act, reac etc.. Too much reaction play is more artificial than none at this level.

For games like GM's FF then reaction to every action is good as we are talking about plattoon level.
 
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Garyp
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Hi Jerry - I see what you are saying about each action representing a very small amount of time but I think the critical consideration for me is: are you able to react to a change in circumstances - so, for example, a soldier is sitting in deep cover, dashes out across the open right in front of that enemy machine gun nest and dives into more deep cover.

Do you say that he started and ended in deep cover and the dash was to fast for any enemy to get any advanatage so no change in his relative circumstances and therefore no need for a Reaction Action OR do you say that for some period of time, however fleeting, he was not as safe as his starting and ending positions and there should be a mechanisim for the enemy to possibly take advantage of his exposed position so need a Reaction.

My preference is obviously for the later with appropriate modifers to reflect that, at least in the example I propose above, the shooting is "snap fire" at a moving target with no time to aim.

Many rules use some sort of reaction mechanism from a simple counter-charge option, casualty removal after both sides shoot (rather than after each side shoots), opportunity fire by units that have used an action to go on overwatch (like in Space Marine),to a stepped action/reaction sequence of play (like in Conflict of Heroes and which I guess is what you are suggesting is the case in SMG). The fact that SMG uses Action cards seems to make some sort of Reaction Action very easy to impliment - for example: play a shoot action card from your hand to snap fire at an enemy that breaks cover - only allowed at up to short range and no spotting required, counts as shooting at long range (to refect the snap fire) unless the card is played on the named soldier in which case it is resolved at short range.

Just thinking out-loud - I have only managed one "real" game and we got things wrong anyway but SMG being a man-on-man level game it seems to me that the level of detail can be quite high without making it complicated.


 
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Jeff Billings
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Reaction capability is in the next major release "Equipment and Tactics".

With the basic rules and soldiers dashing from one cover to anther is possible without reaction by an MG. In the MG.s turn shots can be taken at spotted soldiers.

Reactions are Tactics Cards and usually have a -VP cost to play. I am not allowed to go into detail because the exact release date is not set yet - but I have cheated hear to answer the question even if it is lacking in detail.
 
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Kevin Duke
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Yes, he did. (The sound of a rolled up newspaper whacking someone-- and I'm using the NY Times, so it's a big THUNK sound.)


But back on topic, one thing to consider is the change in dynamics that Jeff's card phase system creates.

There is no classic ugo/igo system in place, because ugo/igo is built on the concept that every turn has the same sequences-- you go through a standard series of actions and then I go through them.

Here we have 3 phases per turn, but each phase has 2 possible actions and the sequence of those actions will change from turn to turn.

While the Story deck has more SHOOT and MOVE actions built in, it is possible that an entire turn COULD happen without either one of those actions coming up for ANY of the three phases. Or it might be that you have a chance to SHOOT or to MOVE in 3 straight phases.

While folks look for traditional 'reactions' because they expect to find them, the game is setting up a very non-traditional and variable flow of choices.

 
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