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Subject: Revealing & Placement of Gate tokens rss

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wendigo song
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Okay, when you are told that a gate opens is the gate placed on the board face up or face down. There was a huge debate on this in our last game where 2 experienced players stated that the gates were supposed to be placed face down and the location the investigator goes to is not revealed till he jumps through the gate. I had an investigator that had the Dragon's Eye. The text of the Dragon's Eye says:

Any phase: Exhaust and lose 1 Sanity after drawing a gate or location card to draw a new card in its place.

My argument was that if the gates were placed the way that they were suggesting then this card would be essentially useless because you would be blindly exchanging one gate token for another which offers no advantage. We put it up to a vote and in the end played it my way while they groaned that it had been played incorrectly the rest of the game.

My 2 questions are: 1) Did we play it right AND 2) Is there any section of the rules that expressly deals wuth this scenario? We parsed the rules and were not able to find the controlling section.

Also, for the purposes of the rules what does an "area" mean? We had a mythos card that instructed us to put clue tokes on it for the use of the investigators in the area and we were unsure if it meant just the street area (meaning the street) or if it meant the entire neighborhood area.
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Karl
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Gate tokens are placed face up. There is a houserule by the designer to place them face down to make the game a bit harder, however this is not in the standard rules and also doesn't work anymore when using the Lurker Expansion.
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Dan Booth
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Also, I think you might be using the Dragon's Eye wrongly. When it says:

Quote:
Exhaust and lose 1 Sanity after drawing a gate or location card to draw a new card in its place.

...it's referring to Other World encounter cards (and Arkham encounter cards), not gate tokens.
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Chris Lawson
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harlemsushi wrote:
Okay, when you are told that a gate opens is the gate placed on the board face up or face down. There was a huge debate on this in our last game where 2 experienced players stated that the gates were supposed to be placed face down and the location the investigator goes to is not revealed till he jumps through the gate.

I don't know what game your experienced players were playing but it wasn't Arkham Horror. Reading the rules is always a good start in such situations

Page 9 of the rulebook
Quote:
Phase V: Mythos
> 1. Open Gate and Spawn Monster
>> C. No Elder Sign or Gate
>>> 2. A Gate Opens
The first player draws a gate marker from the stack of
gate markers near the board and places it face up on the
location.

Emphasis mine. It is clear the gate is face up at this point.

There is nothing wrong with playing a house rule that Gates are placed face down, but it is a house rule.
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Chris Lawson
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BTW, here is the document referred to earlier.

A Few House Rules for Arkham Horror by Richard Launius.
Quote:
Rule 3 - Gate Locations Unknown: All gates are placed face down on the board rather than face up. With this rule, the gate is only revealed when an Investigator goes to the location and travels through it. At the point an Investigator enters the location and announces they are traveling through the gate, flip the Gate over and the Investigator immediately moves through it. (This rule works best with Rule 4, below.)

Reason for House Rule: Creates mystery and makes the game even more interesting. No longer can any players rush their Investigator to a Gate because they know it is the Dreamlands and they feel more comfortable about traveling to that location than the Abyss. This rule does make the game a little more difficult, but the trade-off is it creates a lot of dialog and role-playing with a creative crowd.
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Benjamin Grey
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xris wrote:
There is nothing wrong with playing a house rule that Gates are placed face down, but it is a house rule.


My game group plays with this house rule, and I absolutely hate it.

(Let's remove all the strategy that can be used if we know where the gates go and substitute blind chance in its place. Pfah. At least let us be able to use clue tokens or SOMETHING to look at those face down gates.)

Best of luck to you in quashing that house rule in your group.
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wendigo song
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The location encounters are kind of intuitive, but why else would they mention "drawing a gate" on the Dragon's Eye if it did not refer to actually drawing the gate token?

drb1004 wrote:
Also, I think you might be using the Dragon's Eye wrongly. When it says:

Quote:
Exhaust and lose 1 Sanity after drawing a gate or location card to draw a new card in its place.

...it's referring to Other World encounter cards (and Arkham encounter cards), not gate tokens.
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Austin Fleming
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Quote:
Exhaust and lose 1 Sanity after drawing a gate or location card to draw a new card in its place.


They mean "drawing a gate card or location card". They wrote it like this to save space on the card.
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wendigo song
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I'm confused, what is a "gate card?" I always believed that there were Arkham encounters and Other World Encounters I had not heard them refered to as gate cards. Are you saying that "gate card" is supposed to mean Other World Encounters?
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John Anderson
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harlemsushi wrote:
I'm confused, what is a "gate card?" I always believed that there were Arkham encounters and Other World Encounters I had not heard them refered to as gate cards. Are you saying that "gate card" is supposed to mean Other World Encounters?
Manual p.3:

Quote:
Gate cards represent the encounters that take place in
the Other Worlds. Unlike the Location cards, which are
divided into separate decks for each neighborhood, the
Gate cards are all shuffled together into one deck. For
more information on Other Worlds, see pages 8–9, 21.
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wendigo song
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Thank you very much for the rule book cite.
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John Anderson
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harlemsushi wrote:
Thank you very much for the rule book cite.
No problem. Actually it was news to me too. I've never called them that either.
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Jacob Elfving
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GreyArcher wrote:
xris wrote:
There is nothing wrong with playing a house rule that Gates are placed face down, but it is a house rule.


My game group plays with this house rule, and I absolutely hate it.

(Let's remove all the strategy that can be used if we know where the gates go and substitute blind chance in its place. Pfah. At least let us be able to use clue tokens or SOMETHING to look at those face down gates.)

Best of luck to you in quashing that house rule in your group.


My game group plays with this house rule, and I LOVE it.kiss
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M.C.Crispy
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Elfving71 wrote:
GreyArcher wrote:
xris wrote:
There is nothing wrong with playing a house rule that Gates are placed face down, but it is a house rule.


My game group plays with this house rule, and I absolutely hate it.

(Let's remove all the strategy that can be used if we know where the gates go and substitute blind chance in its place. Pfah. At least let us be able to use clue tokens or SOMETHING to look at those face down gates.)

Best of luck to you in quashing that house rule in your group.


My game group plays with this house rule, and I LOVE it.kiss
Well, I think that about exhausts the range of opinion on that one! I guess the world is divided into two camps: those that like blind Gates and them as doesn't.

For me, I think that if I were in a totally random mood I might play blind Gates - but as I play with Lurker Gates in every game, this would lead to some very nasty situations (given that there are some -4 penalty Gates); it would certainly make the game significantly more difficult.

I normally play revealed Gates - 'cos the tactic of who goes down which Gate when is an important part of my game.

If we're playing blind Gates, why not introduce blind Monsters (when you draw a Monster, just draw a placeholder token and don't draw the Monster from the bag until somebody arrives in the location). Now that would make things "interesting"
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Austin Fleming
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mccrispy wrote:
Elfving71 wrote:
GreyArcher wrote:
xris wrote:
There is nothing wrong with playing a house rule that Gates are placed face down, but it is a house rule.


My game group plays with this house rule, and I absolutely hate it.

(Let's remove all the strategy that can be used if we know where the gates go and substitute blind chance in its place. Pfah. At least let us be able to use clue tokens or SOMETHING to look at those face down gates.)

Best of luck to you in quashing that house rule in your group.


My game group plays with this house rule, and I LOVE it.kiss
Well, I think that about exhausts the range of opinion on that one! I guess the world is divided into two camps: those that like blind Gates and them as doesn't.

For me, I think that if I were in a totally random mood I might play blind Gates - but as I play with Lurker Gates in every game, this would lead to some very nasty situations (given that there are some -4 penalty Gates); it would certainly make the game significantly more difficult.

I normally play revealed Gates - 'cos the tactic of who goes down which Gate when is an important part of my game.

If we're playing blind Gates, why not introduce blind Monsters (when you draw a Monster, just draw a placeholder token and don't draw the Monster from the bag until somebody arrives in the location). Now that would make things "interesting"


You couldn't play with hidden gates using Lurker without making some sort of house rule. There would be no way to know which were the moving gates.
 
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Chris Lawson
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anoirtrou wrote:
You couldn't play with hidden gates using Lurker without making some sort of house rule. There would be no way to know which were the moving gates.

You are already in house rule territory using hidden gates so having house rules isn't exactly a show stopper in this situation

But for me, this situation doesn't need a house rule. You only know what sort of gate it is once it is revealed, so it only becomes a "moving gate" once it gets revealed. Until then it is just a hidden, unknown gate.
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Jon Dennis
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mccrispy wrote:
If we're playing blind Gates, why not introduce blind Monsters (when you draw a Monster, just draw a placeholder token and don't draw the Monster from the bag until somebody arrives in the location). Now that would make things "interesting"

This is a brilliant idea. We play with what amounts to a GM (me) who reads all the cards. I think I just might come up with symbol tokens to place on the board to cover up the actual monster (that way they can still move). I'll report on this variant once I get a chance to try it out, it seems like it could be fun.
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M.C.Crispy
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macgowan wrote:
mccrispy wrote:
If we're playing blind Gates, why not introduce blind Monsters (when you draw a Monster, just draw a placeholder token and don't draw the Monster from the bag until somebody arrives in the location). Now that would make things "interesting"

This is a brilliant idea. We play with what amounts to a GM (me) who reads all the cards. I think I just might come up with symbol tokens to place on the board to cover up the actual monster (that way they can still move). I'll report on this variant once I get a chance to try it out, it seems like it could be fun.
OMG you took me seriously! OK, I kinda meant it seriously in that the logical consistency makes sense. But if you don't move Lurker's moving Gate until it's revealed, why move Monsters? (actually, the answer is "Vortices", which also breaks the Lurker Gate issue too).
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Jim Kiefer
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mccrispy wrote:
If we're playing blind Gates, why not introduce blind Monsters (when you draw a Monster, just draw a placeholder token and don't draw the Monster from the bag until somebody arrives in the location). Now that would make things "interesting"


One of my variants has blind monsters. It was inspired by the movie The Mist. It wasn't as fun as I thought it would be.

We play semi-blind gates but mostly for keeping track of investigators in gates. A face up gate indicates there's an investigator in the gate. However anyone can at anytime examinine the upside down gate markers.
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